Information & Ethics Committee on May 8th, 2007

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're talking on a point of order. Are you?

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

That's what it is. That's what I'm saying right now—a point of order, yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

[Sukh Dhaliwal, Liberal, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Look at it this way: when you compare, members of Parliament have had less access to this report than the media.

I think we should debate this and see how we can work together, on both sides of the floor, to make this workable. We have worked on this for many days, so we should at least get out of here with some consensus.

[An hon. member]

Are we debating the point of order?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're not in debate on the point of order. I think members are entitled to speak on the point of order if they have a point of order.

Monsieur Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

First of all, if Mr. Wallace thinks that we are not on the right track, we still have the clerk. Then, if we think that the motion is admissible, we need only move on to the vote.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, Mr. Vincent, the clerk is here to advise the committee. Just to be clear, he doesn't make decisions.

Proceed.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Pardon me, I didn't mean that the clerk had to make such a decision, but he can tell you what the procedure is. I don't want him to make any decisions.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, he doesn't talk, sir. He advises the chair and the members of the committee. He doesn't make presentations.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Chairman, are you trying to play the fool with me? You understand very well what I mean. I simply mean to tell you that he is able to advise you. I don't want him to talk; that's clear and I understand. I want him to advise you, if Mr. Wallace does not agree, on the admissibility of the motion. Let us put the question to a vote. If we think Ms. Lavallée's motion is admissible, let us put it to a vote, and, if it is agreed to, then we will discuss it.

Mr. Wallace is interpreting the motion by the book, but he's making no reference to this. He's asking the clerk to tell you whether Ms. Lavallée's motion is admissible based on her remarks. Once Mr. Wallace and the clerk have given you their interpretation, we can vote. We're not going to conduct a debate on the debate. We will wind up voting on these two things, and once that's done, we can debate the merits of the question.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

It's my turn, Mr. Chairman. I asked to speak.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Madame Lavallée, on the point of order.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I don't want to argue the admissibility of my motion. I'm very surprised at the remarks of my colleague Mr. Wallace. I'm sure my motion is perfectly admissible because it doesn't contain any argument. It's simply a description of the events that have occurred.

Mr. Chairman, before the meeting, I spoke to my colleague Mr. Wallace, and we agreed—I don't know whether he still agrees—that he would introduce another motion. So I would be prepared to withdraw my motion so that he can introduce his, and we'll vote. Then let's see what happens. I agree to withdraw my motion, not because it isn't admissible, but because there is another one that would achieve more of a consensus and that would ultimately have the same purpose, that is to say to receive witnesses and to ask them what happened with regard to the administration of the Access to Information Act and this internal report. If his motion, even worded differently, has the same objective, I'll be in favour of it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, the chair is here to make rulings. You can't make a conditional withdrawal. You either withdraw it or you don't.

Do I understand, Madame Lavallée, that you are withdrawing your motion?

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'm going to withdraw it; there's no problem. My idea wasn't to make it conditional, but to explain the situation and the reason why I was withdrawing it.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you very much. You are formally withdrawing your motion,oui?

You know, we either have to get on with this or—We're going to recess for a couple of minutes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're going to reconvene the meeting.

Madam Lavallée, am I to understand you're withdrawing your motion?

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chairman.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Wallace has the floor.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I will read a motion that I have. It's not translated. I wrote it last night. I'm just giving the committee notice. I'll read it, but I'll bring it officially to the next meeting, if that's fair:

That the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics address the internal report by the Department of Foreign Affairs entitled Afghanistan 2006: Good Governance, Democratic Development and Human Rights. This review is to occur after the Information Commissioner completes his rulings on any and all ATI requests his commission has received regarding this document.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Can you just read the last sentence?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Sure. It is: “This review is to occur after the Information Commissioner completes his rulings on any and all ATI requests”—access to information requests—“his commission has received regarding this document.”

If I can speak to my motion—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

No, you can't speak to it. This is a notice of motion.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I'm just giving notice that it will be in writing in English and in French, hopefully for the next meeting. I know I have 24 hours. I am going to try to get it by the next meeting. If not, it will be on Tuesday for Thursday.