Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Paragraph 15(1)(h) of the act reads:
that constitutes diplomatic correspondence exchanged with foreign states or international organizations of states or official correspondence exchanged with Canadian diplomatic missions or consular posts abroad;
I am guessing that the piece of information, or some of the information, in the report, Good Governance, Democratic Development and Human Rights, was likely done via correspondence. That correspondence was either provided by Government of Canada officials who are on the ground, or it could have been provided by Afghan officials to Canada, and it was built into this report.
So, clearly, if the communications come from diplomatic correspondence or from exchanges with foreign countries, such as Afghanistan, and if these are believed to have a detrimental effect, based on what I have read, they have the right to black those out and to bring them back to the individual who made the ATI request.
Now, I don't know this for sure, because we haven't seen the report. As for anything reported in the Globe and Mail, I don't know if anybody knows how accurate that is, because the report hasn't been made public.
So we should be dealing with the real documents, not other stuff that people have put together. But we don't know what's in there, because we haven't had the right to see it. I have agreed with that position. Others haven't, and they have appealed that to the Information Commissioner, and he will make a decision. But we won't know that decision because we're moving ahead quickly before they have a chance to discuss the issue and do the proper investigation.
Paragraph 15(1)(i) reads:
relating to the communications or cryptographic systems of Canada or foreign states used
(i) for the conduct of international affairs,
(ii) for the defence of Canada or any state allied or associated with Canada, or
(iii) in relation to the detection, prevention or suppression of subversive or hostile activities.
Now, I'm not sure what's in there, but when we see it, it may have been in relation to the suppression of subversive activities. There could have been something in there about that. That is why the ATI person from this department who, in my uneducated understanding, has years and years and years of experience on this topic, and probably is very, very busy, because of all the work that's done—which doesn't mean you don't do good work.... My view, Mr. Chairman, is that busy people often do high-quality work, because they're used to the topic and become familiar with all of the issues surrounding it. I'm thinking that in this case, that is a clear possibility.
The act also...because it's not necessarily clear to everyone.... And I'm sorry that I'm only speaking English today, but that is my ability, and I am trying to learn French—and all I can say about it is that it is “going”.
Anyway, there is a definition subsection, so that people understand the definitions. Subsection 15(2) reads:
“defence of Canada or any state allied or associated with Canada” includes the efforts of Canada and of foreign states toward the detection, prevention or suppression of activities of any foreign state directed toward actual or potential attack or other acts of aggression against Canada or any state allied or associated with Canada;
So we clearly identify what an allied state is, and obviously Afghanistan is an allied state of Canada.
There is no question of any person looking at the ATI request and saying Afghanistan is not an allied state and that the report should not be viewed in that manner. Obviously with the military and humanitarian support we'll provide until 2009, and which this parliament had agreed to under the Liberal government, I think it's clear that we have been there a while—about five or six years now—and that we're doing great work, both military and humanitarian, and that this is part of the defence of Canada. So it meets the definition set out in the act.
Now, “subversive or hostile activities”.... Some people's definition of that might be different, but it's clear in the act what the definition is. It reads:
espionage against Canada or any state allied or associated
So it doesn't even have to be a spy here in Canada, or a spy about Canada. If somebody is in Canada spying on a foreign country, say, Afghanistan, or the United States, or one of our other allies--Britain, Australia--we have the right, based on the act, with the access to information, with the exemption that's provided under “International affairs and defence” under the “Definitions” portion.... We can prevent others from getting that information, if it's been provided by other governments or by our government, that may affect the activities that may constitute espionage, that may affect not only Canada but also other countries. And that's clearly set out in the definitions.
That may have been a part of this person's thinking pattern and decision-making when it came to deciding which parts would be released under the ATI request or not.
The second part is “sabotage”. Now, in this case we're talking about a report entitled Afghanistan 2006: Good Governance, Democratic Development and Human Rights. I don't know what's in the report because of course I haven't seen it in its entirety, but sabotage, obviously, is an important issue that could have been part of the decision-making. Based on the information that's in this report, that it was designed for the government to review and to make policy decisions that help prevent sabotage, not only in Afghanistan but also here in Canada, it is inappropriate, and obviously set out in the legislation...that's a possibility for why the ATI individual in the Department of Foreign Affairs may have decided that some of that information, knowing how it was provided, was not publicly available at this particular time.
Paragraph 15(2)(c) says:
activities directed toward the commission of terrorist acts, including hijacking, in or against Canada or foreign states,
Obviously under the previous administration, under the Liberal government, we had the very tragic events of 9/11. Security, obviously, became an important issue of the day, and continues to be a very important issue for Canada and for other free nations around the world. Hijacking is actually mentioned. Terrorist acts are clearly indicated as a potential reason--a part of the definition of “subversive or hostile activities”--and these issues are clearly defined in the act, under the “Definitions” section. The information that was included in this report, that we're asking to have reviewed and seeing here before the Information Commissioner has a look at it...could easily have had information that would either have affected or had information regarding terrorist acts or hijackings, or any other events, not just against Canada...but also the possibility of it happening in foreign states, and of course that could be Afghanistan.
Paragraph 15(2)(d) reads:
activities directed toward accomplishing government change within Canada or foreign states by the use of or the encouragement of the use of force, violence or any criminal means,
So obviously under the definition of “hostile activities”, there could have been issues to deal with criminal activity that had been taking place or may have been taking place, or with the prevention of criminal activity. But if, in the opinion of the person in the ATI office, the information, whatever the report says, actually made it to the public, made it to the newspapers, and maybe made it to those who were trying to overcome in Afghanistan, and they were able to use that information to promote criminal activity, to promote violence, to use force, that information would be inappropriate to be in the public domain.
That could be a reason why it's there. But we won't know, Mr. Chairman, because we have a motion in front of us to deal with this urgently, prior to the Information Commissioner and his staff doing the work, seeing the information that's there and applying the criteria.
I'm just on the “Definitions” part of section 15. There are a number of other acts, 13 in total, where this could have made a difference--