Merci beaucoup.
The exemption is in section 21. Again, it's under “Operations of Government”. It's not something the Conservatives brought in. It's a part of the act that all ATI employees of this government--and previous governments--use to decide whether the information should be released or whether it does really affect the operation of government.
That's a tough decision, because I believe we do need to look at the access to information piece—and I've spoken to my colleague from the New Democratic Party on this outside the committee room, and I was actually quoted in the press earlier on—to make sure that people get the information that they are rightly entitled to, and in a timely manner.
But “rightly entitled to” doesn't mean the government of the day should be required to provide information that was provided in confidence or that would be damaging to the operations of government. And operations of government doesn't mean buying pencils and booking rooms and going to meetings; operations of government also has to do with our military and where we're going with our military.
Could you imagine if part of a report that was released gave our enemy in Afghanistan information on what our next move was going to be, in terms of where we were going to be on the road and which area we were going to go after next in terms of rooting out Taliban? Could you imagine what that information would do in terms of their ability to determine where to ambush our own men and women?
You can't just think in terms of the narrow definition of this, because “operations” sound as if they are the day-to-day workings of government in terms of its administrative operations. These go far, far beyond that, and you need to know when information should be released and when it should not.
Based on that, over the years—and rightfully so, I would say—budgets have been kept secret until they're announced, so that nobody in this country or other countries profits from decisions that may have been made and are going to be announced at a certain time on a certain date. That is the operation of government. Can you imagine what it would do to the markets if we didn't have that, and things like those could be released? People would get rich off them. It would be an unfair advantage to those who would get these things. That's why, when you think about the operations of government, you have to think of not just some of the minor things, the day-to-day business of operating this place, but also of the actual documentation or information that would be available if this exemption did not exist.
For example, under the heading “Advice, etc.”, in subsection 21(1), the act says:
The head of a government institution may refuse to disclose any record requested under this Act that contains
(a) advice or recommendations developed by or for a government institution or a minister of the Crown.
I would be surprised if anybody could argue with that. First of all, they may think they're never going to form government; that's a possibility. But those of us who think that someday we will be a government, or are in government, believe there should be an opportunity for a minister of the Crown to be getting confidential advice on different topics, whether economic, environmental, or military—just to pick some big ones. So the advice they get from their staff, and from the individuals who have expertise in the area and who don't necessarily want to be identified with that advice, should be protected with the exemption rule under the heading of “Advice”.
Now, there might have been advice in this document that went to the minister. I don't know that. It did go to the foreign affairs department. I don't know what advice was in there. It may not be a section that the ATI employee used, but it's a possibility. We won't know that, of course, because we won't get a chance. If we call these witnesses, my guess is that because this matter is before the Information Commissioner, they won't be able to comment on this to any extent that will make us any more knowledgeable about the issue than we are now.
But advice is important. Recommendations are important, and they are included in the exemption. Look, on our side and on your side, we give recommendations to ministers. I know I have; I've done it verbally and in writing. That might be public information, and it might not, if it deals with issues of national security or other issues. I haven't provided any of those types of information. In fact, if anybody asked me, I'd be happy to provide what recommendations I have made to ministers.
But there is a sense that a minister of the Crown or a government institution—including, to my understanding, other departments, not just ministries—may have crucial information they don't want to release.
I'll give you a wild example. What if, Mr. Chair, all information was available, if the timing of prison guard changes, how the place is laid out, and the security system that's provided at a prison was public information? That, I don't think, is a good operation of government. I don't think it's a good choice that we allow that to be out there, and that others may use it for the wrong reason, and not just empirical reasons or interest reasons.
In paragraph 21(1)(b) it reads:
an account of consultations or deliberations involving officers or employees of a government institution, a minister of the Crown or the staff of a minister of the Crown
So this exemption to the access to information if a deputy minister or a senior minister in an office or a senior officer of a crown corporation or other organizations provides information or advice, either in writing or verbally—but obviously we're talking in writing because I don't think you can do it verbally—on a particular public policy issue, something that needs to be done to help protect Canadians to do something positive for the environment, to do something that would affect the financial markets for the day, that you cannot in good conscience say that that needs to be public information...that ATI officer in that department has the ability and the right and the knowledge to be able to say this is included in the exemption and it should be exempted because it can injure not Canada, individuals....
I've been using a number of examples, but another great example is the department for public safety. There may be names, there may be all kinds of issues that the minister gets briefed on by his senior officials on security issues for this country. Could you imagine if we didn't have this exemption and those were all public documents?