Information & Ethics Committee on June 19th, 2007

[Gwyn Kutz]

The delegated authority is when the responsibility has been given to an individual to be able to sign on behalf of.... If it is an authority that is delegated from the deputy minister, then the delegated authority is the responsibility of the person who has been given that authority to sign on behalf of the department.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Do you have delegated authority for anything?

[Gwyn Kutz]

I do not have delegated authority for access to information requests. This is why they are processed through the unit that is headed by Madame Sabourin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

Mr. Martin.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to go back to the MINA alert designation, when files are stamped “MINA alert”. That means the minister should be made aware not only that this particular request has been made, although not by whom—I understand that's confidential—but that the finished version will be given to the minister's office so that they're aware of what is sent out. Is that accurate?

[Jennifer Nixon]

Yes. The only thing is that it's not sent to the minister; it's sent to the minister's office. It's the minister's office that wants to see it.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I understand, to the minister's office. So the censored version, the finished package, is sent out to the minister's office?

[Jennifer Nixon]

Yes.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

So that was the case with the document, “Afghanistan 2006”; it was flagged “MINA alert”.

There's another access to information package that's been in circulation that has the 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005.... Do you know if that was stamped “MINA alert” in its censored version?

[Jennifer Nixon]

I'm not familiar with the document.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You're not familiar with the document?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Do you have the numbers?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I only have the page numbers on the bottom.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

On the top there's usually an access request number. Is there any chance of having that?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

No, I do not have that number. The codes at the bottom of the page indicate simply the number of pages, is it? For instance, at the bottom of “Afghanistan 2006”, which everybody agrees is released, is a “000086”. What is that an indication of? It's page 1, so I don't think it's just a numerical counting of the pages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Does anybody know?

[Francine Archambault]

May I respond to that, please. The darker page numbers on the bottom with the multiple zeros in front indicate the page number of the release package. It's not necessarily the page number of the report. So let's say you ask me for whatever information; I give you a release package of 100 pages, and that page 1 might be page 50 of those documents that I gave you.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Okay, that's it.

The fact that these packages went to the minister's office, to my mind, removes any last vestige of doubt that ministers and senior officials knew that torture and abuse were rife in Afghan jails. How could they not know? How could the minister's office not be aware that torture and abuse were rife in Afghan jails if these reports were sent to them as “MINA alerts”? Even if the annual reports are not routinely given to ministers, by virtue of the access to information requests being given to the minister's office, they're made aware of it. Is that a fair conclusion to draw?

[Gwyn Kutz]

The package that is provided to the office of the minister at the end of the redaction process—if the minister's office has flagged the report for notification prior to release, which is what the “MINA alert” means—is the redacted package.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

It isn't the minister who flags it “MINA alert”. Somebody in the ATIP coordinating section flags it “MINA alert”.

[Jennifer Nixon]

It's the minister's office that flags the ones they want to see.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

But the minister's office hasn't seen it.

[Jennifer Nixon]

We send them a report every so often--I'm not sure exactly the time period--that states the new requests that we've received, the text of them only, and they indicate which ones they want flagged as “MINA alert”.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I see. So the access to information requests asking for information about torture of Afghan detainees the minister's office flagged as “MINA alert”?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

They didn't ask about torture. The word “torture”, as far as I know, is not in any of the requests. They asked for specific reports.