Evidence of meeting #6 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was c-2.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
4:40 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
Well, I wouldn't put it that way.
4:40 p.m.
Robert Benson Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
The Parliament of Canada Act says that it's a member of Parliament or senator who can make the request for an examination in relation to the public office holders who are covered. That's what the act says. The amendment in the code was making a statement that could have been interpreted in two ways. One was that a Canadian citizen could lodge a complaint with a member of Parliament, and the member of Parliament could essentially just post it through their office to us.
What we sought there was to know if that essentially allows a complaint to flow through a member of Parliament to us. The advice we got was that it could not; it has to be the member's request. The member can take into consideration information that he or she may receive from a member of the public, but it has to be the member's request, not just a case of a member of Parliament receiving documentation and just essentially posting it to the Office of the Ethics Commissioner saying it's a request for investigation.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
All right. If I can paraphrase what you've just said, your legal opinion would prevent someone like me from telling Dr. Shapiro I've received a complaint from my constituent and asking him to please deal with it. On the other hand, if I write you a letter directly, under my signature, reciting the facts stated by my constituent and asking you to investigate that, it would be in accordance with something the commissioner could do. Is that correct?
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Thank you. That clears it up.
Now on page 8 we're talking about “Examinations pursuant to the Parliament of Canada Act”. What does the word “examinations” mean?
4:45 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
It means the inquiries we have just been referring to.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Okay. You say, “I replied that the Parliament of Canada Act provides for examinations of ministers, ministers of state and parliamentary secretaries, but not Governor-in-Council appointees.” That's pretty clear. When I turn to page 11, I note that there are recusal arrangements for Governor in Council appointees. I'm wondering how it is that you can make recusal arrangements for Governor in Council appointees, but can't examine them.
4:45 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
That, in fact, is just the nature of the legislation.
4:45 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
It's certainly something that Bill C-2 would change. Although I wasn't there at the time, I imagine in the first instance as the government was introducing the possibilities of inquiries, their interest was in the ministers and parliamentary assistants, etc. As time went on this interest widened, I would say, which is how then you see it reflected in Bill C-2.
It's one of the reasons in preparing for Bill C-2 that we imagine we'll need significantly increased resources to deal with the requests for investigation since many more people are eligible to be examined.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Thank you.
Also on that page, I made a point of order at the very beginning of this Parliament about the nature of members of Parliament during an election, and the Speaker ruled on it. I notice that you have essentially said the same thing, which, if one reads between the lines, is that basically an MP is not an MP during an election campaign except for the purposes of collecting his or her cheque.
I wonder if you had, in support of the statement you make in bullet 3, any documentation that you could file with the committee examining the specific legal role that a member of Parliament has during an election campaign.
4:45 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I'll refer the question to the deputy commissioner.
4:45 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
We actually dealt with this issue in the Grewal-Dosanjh inquiry that was conducted under the member of Parliament code. The issue there was also the status of an individual to raise a complaint. We have cited some references in that, so if you wish, I can bring that document to your attention through the chair. It cites authors and constitutional experts and documentation that exists out there.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
All right. So based on that, it is your position that during an election campaign a member of Parliament does not have the capacity to make any request of the Ethics Commissioner?
4:45 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
That's another question.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Exactly.
I'm through, so by all means, I'm happy to take questions from anybody. Yes, Mr. Tilson?
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
It's an issue, Mr. Chairman, that I've often asked about. We're all accepting our salaries until we're either part of the next Parliament or turfed out of office. We also have constituency offices that are open. We have our offices here that are open. We are assisting constituents, and so doing could involve an ethics issue or a question on the conduct of a member of Parliament during that period of time.
So I can only say--I think as the chairman said--it's an interesting position, because I've always taken the position that you're an MP until you leave.
4:45 p.m.
A voice
Until midnight on election day.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
That's the position I'd take, but that's not the position of the Speaker of the House.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Well, I know, but we're dealing with the commissioner, specifically with requests to him. And if that's the case, we might as well not have our offices open for members of the public who may wish us to raise issues, or who may have ethical questions that may go to you through the member of Parliament. You're saying we can't do it. We might as well close our offices up.
4:50 p.m.
Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Ethics Commissioner
I would imagine there are a number of different purposes served by your offices being open, and I don't want to comment on those.