Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 13th, 2007

[Brian Mulroney]

Mr. Chairman, the idea that somebody would charter two Boeings loaded with 450 delegates and fly them into Winnipeg in the middle of a snowstorm in January of 1983 without anybody knowing about it...it's pretty exceptional at a Conservative meeting.

You quote Mr. Schreiber approvingly. He was asked this question under oath, about what role he played in 1983. He was asked by Mr. Bernstein: “Who did you understand this donation was in favour of?” He responded: “I donated this for the leadership campaign of Mr. Mulroney in 1976.” He was asked: “And just to be clear, was this the leadership that resulted in Mr. Clark's election?” Answer: “Yes, yes.” Question: “Did you support Mr. Mulroney's leadership bid, the second one, the one in which he ultimately won?” Answer: “No.”

He had nothing to do with the 1983 campaign--zero.

I say this respectfully, sir: I hope before we leave you'll find it in your heart to withdraw that charge. It's completely false. It's repudiated by your friend Schreiber right here.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Let me set the record straight too: he's no friend of mine, Mr. Mulroney.

[Brian Mulroney]

Then I'll withdraw that, sir. I withdraw that if you'll make your own withdrawal.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We'll see how the day goes.

Mr. Mulroney, you said you had absolutely nothing to do with the Air Canada purchase of Airbus. Yet during the period of time in the two years leading up to the Airbus purchase you replaced virtually all of the board of directors of Air Canada, 13 out of 15, including appointing Frank Moores to the board of directors of Air Canada. Your long-term associate and colleague in the Conservative Party was also the principal lobbyist working for Airbus.

Did you know when you appointed Frank Moores to the board of directors of Air Canada that he was lobbying for Airbus?

[Brian Mulroney]

First, Mr. Moores was part of a group appointed to the board of---

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thirteen out of fifteen. I presume the other two were already Conservatives.

[Brian Mulroney]

You know what, you may be right. I have no idea. But I do know that Mr. Moores is the former Premier of Newfoundland, a former member of this House, chair of the transport committee, I think. I think that Mr. Moores was appointed because he was the Newfoundland representative on the board. These were recommendations made by the Minister of Transport to cabinet, and we acted on them.

Mr. Moores was appointed, I think for a few months, and then withdrew and retired, not because he was representing Airbus but because he had a conflict because he had an economic association with Wardair. So he had to resign. Of his own volition, he announced his conflict and stepped down within months.

So, sir, let me tell you when the Airbus matter came up---

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You have made your point, sir. I have one minute left, and I need to ask you one more question about your blind trust, sir, as a prime minister.

A lot of public office holders have blind trusts. Did you have any shares or any interests in GCI or any subsidiary in the blind trust you were holding when you were the Prime Minister or a member of Parliament?

[Brian Mulroney]

Of course not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to Mr. Russ Hiebert.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Mulroney, thank you for being here this morning.

Today you've spoken to the nation and provided answers to some of the questions that have lingered in the minds of Canadians for years. However, that doesn't change the fact that Canadians feel their trust has been broken. What we've been told recently has cast a shadow over the institution of government. This committee has sought to shed light on your actions. Canadians understand that the Prime Minister is just a person, but they expect that individual to reflect the dignity of that high office. Even if at the end of the day no code of conduct or law was broken, even the appearance of wrongdoing is troubling to Canadians. We want to know exactly what happened, so that Canadians can put this saga behind us.

My first question has to do with the cash. Mr. Mulroney, when you received that first payment, were you still a member of Parliament?

[Brian Mulroney]

Yes, I was. And that is, as you know, not a violation of the House of Commons Act.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You've told this committee that you declared that money as income, but you've also indicated that that money was used for expenses.

[Brian Mulroney]

Partially, sir.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Did you declare all the money as income, or a part of the money as income because some of it was expenses?

[Brian Mulroney]

All of it, sir. I absorbed the money that I legitimately spent on expenses. I took it from my own account. In other words, I did not take the legitimate expenses. I filed for the full amount and paid full tax on it.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

When Mr. Schreiber gave you that money, did you provide him with any kind of a receipt?

[Brian Mulroney]

No, I didn't. He didn't even indicate to me what.... In fact, he told a newspaper the other day that when he gave it to me, I had no idea what the amount was or what the denominations were. He told someone the other night on television that he's a European businessman, he deals in cash, and that's the way he did it. That's essentially what he told me. But I had no idea, sir.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Did you ever ask Mr. Schreiber what the source of the cash was?

[Brian Mulroney]

No, I didn't.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

So you had no idea where the money was coming from?

[Brian Mulroney]

Mr. Hiebert, the reason I didn't, as I tried to indicate.... You know, it's easy to look 15 years later and see a Karlheinz Schreiber or anybody else. We have to look back 15 years and see the gentleman I was meeting. I was meeting with the chairman of Thyssen Canada, which had 3,000 employees in Canada, as a part of Thyssen Industries, which had 180,000 employees worldwide. Mr. Schreiber had been promoting an entirely legitimate project in eastern Nova Scotia, and that's the way I knew him, as a perfectly legitimate businessman. So when I met with him, I met with the Karlheinz Schreiber of 1993, not the Karlheinz Schreiber of today.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Mulroney, the following questions relate to the 1985 code of conduct for public office holders that you personally put in place as Prime Minister.

My first question is a very direct question. Did you ever violate the 1985 code of conduct for public office holders?

[Brian Mulroney]

No, sir.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Did Mr. Schreiber ever offer you employment?