Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 12th, 2008

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

Many people now have personal knowledge of the lobbying that was done regarding Bear Head, and that contradicts this version. Thus, it is important for us to get the facts straight.

In other testimony heard by this committee, people have talked about envelopes, similar to how you described what happened at the Pierre Hotel in New York, envelopes that would have come from your office, the Prime Minister's Office, during your time there, or that would have circulated between your office, the Prime Minister's Office and one or more people who lived or worked at 24 Sussex.

At any time throughout the entire period you were part of Mr. Mulroney's entourage or at any other time, did you ever see money in an envelope or cash changing hands when you were there?

[Fred Doucet]

Yes.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Under what circumstances?

[Fred Doucet]

When the Progressive Conservative Party, at that time, would reimburse Mr. Mulroney for party-related expenses. I believe you have already heard testimony on this aspect. Reimbursements were paid out twice a month, if I am not mistaken—but I am not certain that it was twice a month. When I was there, the cheques were made out to “Fred Doucet in trust”. When that was the case, I would cash the cheques and put the money in envelopes. Someone from 24 Sussex was called and would come to pick up the envelope. That is the only time I saw money transfers like the ones you described at 24 Sussex.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you for the qualifier, once again. That is the only time you saw cash sent over to 24 Sussex.

I have another specific question for you. At any other time, whether at your office, at the Prime Minister's Office, or at any other location where you might have been, did you see any handing over of money, or anything that you suspected might be money in an envelope, such as at the Pierre Hotel, or anything you believed could have been the handing over of money?

[Fred Doucet]

Absolutely not, not at any time.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Not at any time. That is your testimony under oath?

[Fred Doucet]

That is my testimony under oath.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Doucet.

That is fine, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Tilson, please.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, through you to Mr. Doucet, I had about five pages of questions, and you've pretty well answered them all. I'm going to ask you a couple of them, however.

You talked about meetings at Mirabel airport and the Pierre Hotel in New York. There has been mention in these proceedings about a meeting at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. Do you know anything about that?

[Fred Doucet]

That's one of the meetings I said I had no recollection that I had anything to do in organizing.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You did say that.

With these meetings, Mr. Schreiber, as I understand your testimony, asked that you set up the meetings. Is that what your testimony was?

[Fred Doucet]

Correct, in those two meetings.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

In those two meetings, were you acting as some sort of representative for Mr. Mulroney or Mr. Schreiber, or both?

[Fred Doucet]

Good question. Well, I suppose as a link, because Mr. Schreiber had been a previous client, Mr. Mulroney had been a previous employer in the sense that he was Prime Minister and I was an adviser. So I was a link, yes.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Yes. You've touched on this, and I know you've given some answers, but I'd like to talk about it again. This consulting agreement between Mr. Schreiber and Mr. Mulroney to do a number of things--Mr. Mulroney has an interpretation and Mr. Schreiber has another interpretation, it seems. Do you know any details about this agreement?

[Fred Doucet]

I know this, and there are two parts to my answer.

First, when Mr. Schreiber asked me to set the meeting at Mirabel, he told me what it was he wanted to meet on. He elaborated, albeit sparsely, on what he wanted to achieve, obviously, because then I had to ask Mr. Mulroney if he was prepared to meet him on that basis.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Could I stop you? I know we're going back a long time, but do you recall what that was?

[Fred Doucet]

Yes, and I specified that--

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You did, but could you elaborate on that a little?

[Fred Doucet]

Well, not a lot, because I don't have any recollection beyond what I've said here, and that is that he wanted to propose to Mr. Mulroney to retain him on an international assignment to promote military vehicles.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Yes, and you mentioned a second point.

[Fred Doucet]

Oh yes, the second point was...sorry, now I'm losing myself.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I interrupted you.