If you look in the transcript, you will see that he is quite upset at one point because he can't find work. He had a terrible time finding a job after he became public. This material in On the Take that he gave me was not the first time I'd interviewed him. I included a story in your package that I wrote for The Globe and Mail in 1990, where he says many of the same things.
He's a very talented, bright man. I liked him very much; I still like him. I think he's a good person. I think he was terrified.