Evidence of meeting #2 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chairman.

A recording is available from Parliament.

chairmanmartinaccess to informationfederal accountabilityfiscal yearreportmotionsacting principal clerkcameras be removedchallenge the chairadmissibilitygoing to moveofficemandatenoticeadvicelast

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Robert Marleau  Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Jennifer Stoddart  Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Mary Elizabeth Dawson  Ethics Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Ethics Commissioner

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Notice has been given to the members. Everybody is aware of what the motion is.

The chair has every prerogative to consult with the clerk or with the principal clerk of committees on admissibility. I have to make the final decision, but I'm going to do so with the advice of the resources I have available to me, those being the clerk and the principal clerk.

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

When I move my motion, then you can rule it in order or out of order as you see fit.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I can't. I will not rule on a motion if I don't know whether it's admissible. I'm sorry, I cannot do that.

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

I'll give you a good argument as to why it should be admissible, and that can help guide you.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Please.

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

If the senior clerk says it's ambiguous, that it could go either way, then it will fall to the chair to make up his mind, based on the information you have.

Let's proceed.

I move the motion:

That the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics undertake a review of matters related to the Mulroney Airbus libel settlement; including any and all new evidence, testimony, and information not available at the time of the settlement so as to determine if there were violations of ethical and code of conduct standards by any public office holders; and to report to the House on its findings, conclusions and recommendations.

I'd like to speak to the motion now that I have moved it.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Mr. Martin, I'm going to move that motion out of order pending the resolution of whether or not the motion is admissible.

I'm going to move now to Madam Lavallée for her comments.

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, I'd like to speak to my motion before you decide to rule it out of order or not.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Mr. Martin, I'm sorry I can't do that. The motion is not in order at this time, given that the decision with regard to admissibility has not been taken.

I'm going to give the floor to Madam Lavallée--

As spoken

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Translated

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Yes, Mr. Guimond.

As spoken

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

You have just made a ruling, and I would like to say that I am challenging it, Mr. Chairman.

Translated

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

There is no decision.

As spoken

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

Yes, you took a decision.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I cannot receive the motion until I can get advice--

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

You ruled it out of order.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

No, I said I cannot accept the motion, I cannot entertain the motion--

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Well, I challenge that decision.

As spoken

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

We challenge this decision.

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

We challenge the chair.

As spoken

Michel Guimond Bloc Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC

As part of the same point of order, Mr. Chairman, I would point out that in the House, Speaker Milliken often says committees are masters of their own procedure. As I understand it, the acting deputy clerk or the deputy clerk gave you some advice. I believe you're acting in good faith. You received some advice, but in the context of this committee, we do not have to agree with the acting clerk.

It is said that committees are masters of their own procedure, and we are. You ruled that Mr. Martin's motion was out of order. With all due respect, Mr. Chairman, we are challenging your decision, and I would call for a vote on this ruling.

Translated

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Let's be clear, Mr. Guimond. I did not rule.

I explained in great detail that the clerk and the acting principal clerk have raised questions about admissibility. Rather than make a decision, because this is a new committee and the provisions do not match other committees--they do not have the general powers--this is an area in which they want to hear the argument, with regard to subparagraph (vi), as to admissibility. They will then give me their advice and recommendation on the admissibility of any of those motions.

The next person on my list is Mr. Hubbard.

As spoken

Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB

Mr. Chair, I--

As spoken

Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

As spoken

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

We're still debating your--

As spoken