Information & Ethics Committee on July 16th, 2008

[Marc Mayrand]

It's a few million dollars for a campaign.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Does “a few million dollars” mean $5 million, $20 million?

[Marc Mayrand]

It's less than $5 million.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Could it be $1 million?

[Marc Mayrand]

It's more than $1 million. I can come back to the committee with the exact figure.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

So you're really not sure; you don't have that kind of level of detailed knowledge about the amount.

I was going to ask you, then, how that budget is divided in terms of dollars between print, radio, Internet, and television.

[Marc Mayrand]

I will provide the committee, if required, that information.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

But you don't have that level of detailed knowledge?

[Marc Mayrand]

In my mind right now, at this point, no, and I don't want to mislead the committee. However, I would be happy to provide information in that regard.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Realistically, Mr. Mayrand--

[Marc Mayrand]

That's part of our main estimates.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I appreciate that you can't answer these questions; I really do. I wouldn't have expected you to have the answers to these detailed questions, and neither would I think it reasonable to expect an official agent to have the answers to these detailed levels of questions, considering that these are, again, volunteers who are working part-time to assist the democratic process.

Mr. Mayrand, you've stated that these five facts are essential to your decision. Then you made an opening statement this morning that confused me a little bit, because from your testimony yesterday I got the impression that you were trying draw these five facts or factors from the Elections Act, but then you said this morning that they were simply more like five facts.

Could you clarify it for me? Are any of these five facts identified in the Elections Act?

[Marc Mayrand]

This is a matter before the Federal Court. It's being argued and disputed before the Federal Court, and I would refer to the proceedings before the Federal Court.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Actually, that's not--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Go ahead, Mr. Poilievre, on a point of order.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

The witness has indicated to this committee that he can't answer this question. Because he introduced the subject material of the question in his opening presentation and in subsequent declarations, I'd ask that you call upon the witness to answer the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

In the outline Mr. Mayrand provided to us, he indicated that he would outline the factors affecting his decision, which he has done, and which he has reaffirmed in a number of questions. It would appear to me that the issue now being addressed to Mr. Mayrand is about the sourcing of those factors and about defending them, as opposed to just identifying them.

Mr. Mayrand has indicated that this is the substance of the court proceeding. The factors he took into account to sustain his decision not to reimburse those expenses are being dealt with in that Federal Court civil proceeding, the judicial review.

I believe Mr. Mayrand is quite correct; this is fundamental to the determination of that judicial body as to whether or not those reimbursements are there, so I will accept Mr. Mayrand's refusal to respond any further on that matter.

Mr. Hiebert, resuming, you have two and a half minutes to go.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Mr. Chair, I can't help but think that this is just a Liberal PR stunt to prevent us from asking legitimate questions before this committee. It's unbelievable. But I will continue.

Mr. Mayrand, I'm looking at the document you submitted to this committee called “The Regional Media Buy Program”. It's dated July 2008. Pages seven through nine identify these five factors that you raised before the committee. I'm simply trying to ask a question that helps us understand the source from which you found these five factors. You're declining to answer the question. I Invite you to answer the question again, but if you again decline, I can only assume that the answer is negative, that there is no basis in the Elections Act for any of these five factors, which puts you on very shaky ground.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to move to another related line of questioning.

A couple of minutes ago, Mr. Mayrand, you stated--and this is where I need clarification--that “the facts came up after prosecution had already commenced”. Did I hear you correctly? Did you say something along those lines?

[Marc Mayrand]

I have said repeatedly since yesterday that new facts have emerged since my initial decisions were made.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay, so you're referring to new facts, not these five factors or facts. Is that correct?

[Marc Mayrand]

New facts have come up since last year when I made the decision.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay, so the five factors were identified before this went to prosecution.

[Marc Mayrand]

The five facts led to my decision to refuse the claims as submitted.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Okay.

I want to clarify one more thing, and that's my request for documentation. You said you directed your staff to look for these five factors in the 38^th and 39^th returns of all major parties. Presumably you have a memo or an e-mail that would indicate this is what you wanted to happen. I'd love to see that e-mail, as well as the order from which this exercise occurred. Could you provide that for us?

[Marc Mayrand]

I will have to search my records to find out if I provided written instructions with regard to that review or I simply spoke to people. But if there are written instructions, I will certainly provide them.