Evidence of meeting #47 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conservative.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
—but since you guys make the rules, there are bound to be huge grey areas you can drive a truck through.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Basically, whether either it was illegal....
Mr. Goodyear, I didn't interrupt you. I listened to your baloney, we'll call it, for 25 minutes this afternoon. I didn't interrupt you, with great patience. Why do you get back at me? I have five minutes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order, please.
Everything is going fine. Mr. Hubbard, you are quite right, sir. Carry on with your questioning, sir.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
This $30,000, you're saying, wasn't ethical. It maybe was not legal, but your association would have had a $30,000 bundle of money to get ready for the next election. Is that correct?
As an Individual
My two opposing candidates are probably Tony Ianno and Olivia Chow, at the moment. They both have $80,000 to spend. I don't have that. They already have $80,000 because they got over 10%. They're already up to their caps. They're going to spend $80,000.
For my election, which I have to fight on behalf of the party with the most seats, I have $20,000. Is it ethical that they have such a huge advantage over me that they can do literature five or six times and I can barely do it twice? Is it ethical?
It's the rules. Do I like them? Do I want to change them to make sure that my party and every other association has a reasonable chance of winning? You know that part of winning is money.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
The final point I want to make is that your national party apparently has about $20 million. They sent you $50,000 in this hand and they want it back in the other hand. It must be a pretty poor family that you're part of.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Actually, Mr. Lowry, I want to congratulate you. I think you have a very solid common-sense approach to the situation. I think you already know you did nothing wrong. Elections Canada has always allowed for the transfer of money back and forth. The implications by the opposite party and the attempts to catch you in a snag are shameful.
I want to suggest to you that you have every right to spend every darn cent on advertising or anything you want. If you want to spend the wad on buttons, if that's how you feel you can get elected, that's your God-given right and it is the law. It's perfectly legal. I congratulate you. I appreciate your testimony.
I did have some questions, sir, but I think they're grilling you hard enough and I'm just going to pass my time over to Mr. Tilson.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Mr. Lowry, if you ever decide to move to the country, we'd love to have you in Dufferin--Caledon.
That's it.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Lowry, may I ask your opinion, sir, in regard to limits? Why do you think there are limits in the election law as far as expenses that are permitted to candidates or to a national party are concerned?
As an Individual
For $80,000 per riding association? Why is there a limit? Because it's so many per vote. It's supposed to give equal opportunity for each of the registered parties, that they can spend the exact same amount of dollars per vote.
That's a wonderful theory. The problem is what happens if you don't have that kind of money. If you look at most elections, if you don't spend well past your cap, if you don't get a refund, you're not likely to get elected unless there's some wave. Years ago, the NDP were elected in the Ontario Legislature. There were people who had spent hardly any money, but there was this wave that went through and they all got elected.
If you don't spend a reasonable amount of money, you don't get elected, or it's extraordinarily tough. It's not impossible, but it's tough.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Regarding the company, Retail Media, you answered my colleague Ms. Redman a little while ago that you saw the invoices or the bills after the fact or after the election.
As an Individual
Because they didn't really affect me, I would have gotten them in the mail, thrown them in the folder, and said, “Well, that's nice.”
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Was there ever any discussion or negotiation between you and Retail Media during the campaign, sir?
As an Individual
I have no idea who Retail Media is, nor have I really cared about it. I'm sure that likely some of the principals are members of the Conservative Party; at least I hope they would be. Just like every other party, the Liberal Party has an agency, and the NDP has an agency.
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
What I understand from you, sir, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that you received electronically $50,000 in the bank account for your candidate.
Liberal
Liberal
Marcel Proulx Liberal Hull—Aylmer, QC
Okay.
Who asked you to send it back the same day, the headquarters?