Evidence of meeting #47 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conservative.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
If you were to ask me what my verbatim conversation with Mr. Bouffard was at the time, I would say that was it.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Fair enough. Thank you very much.
Mr. Lowry, you did share with us that you spoke to two Conservative Party officials about how they felt about your coming here, I'll put it that way. You also said very briefly that you were advised or given some talking points or notes or advice about some things they may or may not want you to say.
Can you elaborate on what sort of things the Conservative Party told you about what they would like you to talk about or what they might not like you to talk about at this hearing?
As an Individual
When I called the regional organizers, because I'm a member of the Conservative Party, when I walk through the door representing the Conservative Party, they said maybe you need some talking points.
As an Individual
But I didn't get any. I thought they would e-mail some to me. That's reasonable, probably something to do with some of the stuff that was in the press. I'm sure the gentlemen across the way from you, the kinds of comments they think...or what the party in general thinks about this committee, something of that nature. And that's all public knowledge.
I'm not in that game. I'm in Toronto. I work for one of the banks. I go to the bank, one of the offices across the street, and I worry about more than I do here. That's my business. But when I walk in the door, I'm a member of the Conservative Party, and presumably the Conservative Party has a viewpoint.
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You were called here as the official agent for Mr. Goldstein's campaign, actually.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
The last question I would have, then—just so I understand you completely—is that, first of all, you believe the roughly $50,000 worth of advertising buy was legitimately a local expense. I understand that. But secondly, you seem to think it's okay to generate money by simply dropping it into your bank account and pulling it back out for a 24-hour period, and then hitting the taxpayer up for 60% of that money.
NDP
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
—that this advertising is not part of the local campaign but is part of the national campaign. How would you feel about that in and out then?
As an Individual
There are two answers to this. One, as a regular taxpayer, what goes on and how financing gets done in Ottawa...yes, it's weird. As a CFO, it's my responsibility to consider the long-term future of my riding association, and if those are the rules, I'm doing it. If somebody says, “You're absolutely not allowed to do that,” then we don't do it. But right now, those are the rules, and every party has some form of doing something of that nature.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Mr. Chair, I think I'll just pass on any questions. I'll take two seconds here to thank the witnesses for coming.
But sir, I do have a point of order after you've dismissed the witnesses. Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay.
Gentlemen, as I indicated to you prior to bringing the meeting to order, I would offer you an opportunity, if you wish, to make any closing remarks—briefly, because we're certainly not looking for a speech—if you feel there's something you want to correct, amplify upon, or say to the committee.
And I think it's probably a good time, while you think of what you might want to say, if anything, to deal with a suggestion here about your right to have a lawyer and these kinds of things. I will be responding to the committee very fully on this, but I'm a little concerned that people who are scheduled to be witnesses may be watching this and may all of a sudden be concerned about your legal status here.
As you know, you are here before a committee of Parliament, and as all honourable members know, you are protected by parliamentary privilege. That means that....
Excuse me. Order.
You are protected by parliamentary privilege. I didn't say this at the beginning, which I had said for other witnesses who appeared before us. You are protected by parliamentary privilege, and anything you say cannot be used against you in any other proceedings. So there is no need for you to have a lawyer, and indeed, the clerk points out to me that there is no need for anyone to be apprised of their rights.
With regard to a summons, I know, Mr. Lowry, you did receive a summons. The other two gentlemen did not. Anyone can bring a lawyer with them if they feel that it's necessary. The rules are—if someone is watching and wants to bring a lawyer—that they can, but a lawyer can only advise his client but will not be able to speak and address the committee. So that people will understand, those are the rules.
That said, I'd like to invite you to make any final comments you'd like to the committee, to Canadians. I think maybe I'll just go in order.
Mr. Lowry.
As an Individual
I'll echo what you just said. I think anybody who is supposed to attend should attend. One of the reasons for what we're doing is that we're trying to elect people to this House. That means we want it to work.
If you don't like the rules, the committee can change the rules. If you want to tighten the rules, that's fine with us. If you want to change everything about it, that's fine with us. But all parties have to do the exact same thing, and right now all parties are using the same type of measures.
The rules were changed a little while ago. That's fine. Change them again. That's your job up here, to make things work.
I happen to be in Olivia Chow's riding. I thought maybe I was in Jack's riding. I don't know.
But if you want to change the rules, please do so.
As an Individual
In real life I'm an income tax consultant. We have a tax law in this country that is relatively complicated. I was invited to be an official agent for Mr. Marler. I was surprised at how complicated the laws around elections were. In fact, we didn't know what we were doing quite a bit of the time before the election started.
I am surprised, looking back, that the training sessions are given by the parties. It seems to me that if you want to get your official agents trained consistently so they're all reading from the same song book, the parties should pool their moneys or have some kind of arrangement so someone from Elections Canada does the training. At least we'd have their word.
I really feel sorry for Mr. Lowry, because he's been dragged through the coals here and I think he was acting in good faith.
As an Individual
Thank you for the opportunity to say something.
There is so much that could be said about so many things. Certainly my agent, Mr. Webber, has touched on things, and I've listened to what Mr. Lowry and the members sitting here had to say. I think my role here--because it's the only thing I can speak directly to-- has to be to answer the questions put to me. I hope you consider that I've done that. I do not want to become the judge, jury, and expert witness. I just want, perhaps, this committee to be of value to the nation generally in future elections.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Thank you kindly.
I thank the witnesses, on behalf of the committee members, for taking the time to be with us and for your valuable input to the committee's knowledge of what transpired and some of the considerations we should make. I thank you all again. You're now excused.
Mr. Proulx has moved to adjourn.
Conservative