Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
No, no, what I meant when I said “we decided” is that it was an internal—
As an Individual
No, that was internal; that's what I think. We would take a look at it and see how best to do it. As it says in the e-mail, it was to wait and see what the party officials would—
Bloc
As an Individual
Party officials decided that it was fine, that it was perfectly legal.
Bloc
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Do you think that this is an ethical way to manage a client's account?
As an Individual
Let me respond to that, if I may.
Absolutely. Everything in terms of our dealings.... I mentioned it was a business relationship with the client, and we relied on the client, in this particular place, to understand the nuances of all the regulations. I think it's perfectly normal for us to do that.
We also, if I might continue—
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
If you had a professional relationship with your clients...
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
If you had a professional relationship with your clients and the candidates became your clients, how could you have suggested to Sylvie Boucher, a candidate in Quebec City, that she pay $39,000 for advertising in which she did not appear, when you billed $9,000 to another candidate, Josée Verner, for advertising she appeared in? How could you have given your clients that kind of advice?
As an Individual
Well, let me reiterate. Our concern was the total amount of spending in a riding. The ridings were provided to us; what we were trying to do was determine and make sure that there was the total amount of cash available to make the transaction. How it was divided up by candidate was not relevant to us, was not directly part of our business focus at all.
As I indicated too, this was a very short timeframe. We were just trying to get it on air, to make the media buy with the total amount. How it was divided up was given as instruction to us; it was not our province, if you will.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, witnesses, for being here and for your cooperation with the committee so far. We appreciate it very much.
The real nub of the matter here is, if the federal Conservative Party, which was your client essentially, wanted to buy more national advertising, why do you think they'd filter this money through the riding associations? Did you have any idea what the rationale was when this aspect of your business relationship took off?
As an Individual
Well, it was our understanding that they were trying to maximize the legal amount of advertising they could do for the campaign.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Did anybody advise you, or did anybody say that off-loading national expenses in a campaign and claiming them as local expenses is in fact highly illegal; that it's not legal at all?
As an Individual
I guess that's what these hearings are attempting to determine. As I said, we're not experts.
You may recall that I indicated that at the time there were a couple of conference calls that included counsel for the Conservative Party, who obviously would be the experts in that area. We accepted their advice.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Judging from some e-mails, though, you had a good sense that they had reached or were reaching their maximum legal limit for the national campaign.
Ms. Dixon, one of your e-mails says, I believe, that they are also thinking of switching some of the time over to the ridings. You say it sounded as though the reason was to legally maximize advertising expenditures. But that kind of Enron-style, off-balance-sheet financing is not legal at all.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Off-balance-sheet? They're trying to get these expenses off of their books and put them over onto the books of the local campaign.
That would be wrong in itself, but then to further file a rebate claim for that money that's been transferred or the expenses that have been transferred over is highly wrong at a whole other level and has nothing to do with Retail Media. But even in the business world, that kind of manipulation, whether it was for tax purposes or to mislead the shareholders or whatever else, would be a highly unethical practice, if not an illegal practice.
