Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
As an Individual
Pat, just to wrap up on that point, you have to remember that at the local campaign level we had no idea how much the central party was spending on advertising.
As an Individual
No, we had absolutely no idea, and also you have to remember the money was not distributed randomly across all the ridings. Obviously it affected our riding. Mine was the only riding that I knew of at the time. After the fact, of course, I can see that other ridings were part of the same business arrangement, but these were poor ridings.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
That has nothing to do with it, sir. That doesn't justify theft. Being poor doesn't justify theft.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order, please.
Mr. Martin, I had indicated to you that the time was up and that was the last question.
We are almost at the end of the second round. If members want to go to a third round, they can let me know, but right now I just have Madam Redman and Mr. Del Mastro. That would be the end of the questioning, unless the members want to continue on, and you'll let me know, I'm sure.
Madam Redman.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
Mr. Halicki, I want to go back to your last statement, that at the time you thought you were the only person participating. I just want to explore this very briefly, because I have limited time here.
With whom did you think this media buy was—just your riding and the national party? You didn't assume that it was with other people in your geographic area? Exactly how did you think the media buy was going to advantage you?
As an Individual
I had no information from any other ridings that they were participating in the business arrangement. I never sought that information either. We were focused on one thing, and that was the campaign. We were offered this proposition by the party. We examined it very closely.
You have to think back to what the atmosphere was like back in 2006. You have to remember that one of the major campaign issues at that time was the sponsorship scandal. So there was a heightened sensitivity to ethical, honest behaviour. That's why we took the time to assess this proposition and make sure it was something that was not going to taint us either at that time or in the future.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
And where did you get those assurances that this would not taint you then or in the future? From whom did you get that assurance?
As an Individual
I knew from the training I had that the party was able to transfer funds between the component parts of the organization.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
So the Conservative Party representatives assured you that it was above board?
As an Individual
To transfer the funds into the campaign account? Absolutely.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Would you know the name of that person, or is that something—
As an Individual
No, no. The mechanics were explained in an e-mail to our campaign manager. That came from one of the directors of the national council, who is Susan McArthur.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
When I hear the word “authorize”.... You have to appreciate the fact that it's Elections Canada that flagged this issue with the Conservative Party of Canada, not any of the other parties. So this scheme alone—whether you want to call it the in-and-out or the advertising scheme—was challenged by Elections Canada as not adhering to the rules of Elections Canada, and there were five things. In and of themselves they don't necessarily break Elections Canada rules, but as a cluster they do.
When I hear that one of the criteria is that these expenses have to be authorized by the local campaign, and I hear the word “authorize”, it leads me to believe that I have seen the script, I have seen the media buy, I understand it's fair market value, that this is good money being spent on behalf of me and my campaign. That's the kind of authorization I would expect most official agents would like to convince themselves of, and clearly, Mr. Halicki, your official agent had a lot of trouble with this. She thought it was creative.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
So my question is this. Did any of you see the ad that supposedly went out, and if you did, did it have your tagline? Mr. Halicki, did you see any of the ads that you participated in for your riding?
As an Individual
No. As I explained to Pat, we couldn't even afford a television in our riding office. I was either on the street or in debates, and I had no time to watch television, period.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Did anybody on your campaign team see them? Did they see the script? Do they know what the media buy entailed? Or was it just an in-and-out?
As an Individual
I don't know whether they saw them or not. That was not a material concern to me. I was not looking back; I was looking forward. I was building towards the election date. That money had been spent; the advertising had been done. So you move on to the next issue in the campaign.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Ms. Downey, I will ask you and Mr. Roberts the same question. Did you see any of the advertisements that were supposedly part of this media buy for the in-and-out money to your campaign?
As an Individual
I personally did not see or hear. Travelling around my district, my radio was on full-time, and I certainly did not hear anything on the radio that would indicate to me that I was being a part of the national campaign.