Evidence of meeting #48 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was campaign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay. Would it be all right with you, sir, just to suspend for a few moments? We're going to recognize you for your point of order as soon as we reconvene, which we will do within about 10 or 15 minutes.
I understand that you want to have a discussion about the next panel of witnesses, and that's fine. I make that undertaking to you.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
I have a point of order right now, Mr. Chair. I will, on your promise that I can have the floor the minute we reconvene and that it will be in a few minutes, not some other time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Sure.
Order, please. I have one final thing before I suspend.
As the members will know, Mr. Goodyear started off this afternoon's session with a point of order that troubled me about what happened, and I think we're going to get into more of this, about who actually received a summons. I wanted to look at the facts with regard to yesterday morning when we had four witnesses who did not appear—
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
On a point of order, Mr. Chair, you just asked me to delay so we could suspend for a few minutes, and now you're going into other business.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
No, you're raising a point on new witnesses. I'm raising on the point that you raised—
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
It goes to the same point of your claim that people had summonses. It's clearly the same point, Mr. Chair. Suspend and we'll both have the conversation, or let's both have the conversation now.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I sense that the committee needs to have a little break. I'm going to suspend.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
We're resuming the afternoon session, the final panel of witnesses. While we're waiting to see if some of those witnesses appear, Mr. Goodyear, on a point of order, wanted to make some points with regard to these witnesses and summonses.
Mr. Goodyear, you have the floor, sir.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Thank you.
I will offer that I guess I know you're going to have to look into your records on this. I suppose I can't expect an answer, unless you have one immediately.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I would request that when you deal with one, maybe check and look to me to see if I have an answer, one by one.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Let me try to stay with the facts here.
We're not dealing with our witnesses. All of “our” witnesses were not allowed to be here by this committee. These are witnesses who were called by the opposition members on your advice, Mr. Chairman.
You have made assertions in the media and here in committee that summonses had been issued and so on and so forth. Certainly there have been comments that if the summonses aren't honoured, there will be consequences. I was there, not at the press conference-- that was the wrong use of the words--but at the scrum yesterday. I heard exactly what you said. I was very concerned because at that moment I knew that some of these folks who were summoned had not received their summons, but I had no proof.
I have received a letter just now that concerns me, and this is why. With regard to Mr. Brian Hudson, he was not consulted in advance by anyone in your office as to his availability. He was simply invited to attend today. Now, he got this notice late last week, in fact Friday night, and it makes sense that the offices would be closed.
Immediately on Monday he telephoned, he did all kinds of things. It was too short a notice to travel to Ottawa, and so on and so forth. The only response he received from the clerk's office was, “We got your message”.
Mr. Irving Gerstein...frankly, it is hilarious. His housekeeper was given....
Can I get them all out, because—
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
I can hand you the letter. Actually, Mr. Chair, you have these letters. They're addressed to you and your clerk.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I understand that, but people who are observing here and some of the members are not aware. You know that I have been derided on a daily basis with the update of communications with proposed witnesses. A flurry of that activity took place after the summonses were sent out.
With regard to Mr. Hudson, on July 28 a letter was dropped off at the Conservative Party headquarters, and an e-mail was also sent on July 31. He was spoken to on the phone. He said he was going to check back with the chief of staff and call back. He works for the Honourable Loyola Hearn.
There was no response. He did not get back to us. On August 1, 2008, as I indicated, I signed the summons, and the summons was sent to Kilrea. On August 8, which would be Friday, we received a call from Mr. Hudson stating he received the summons and asking if the committee would reimburse his expenses.
Then on August 11 we called back to find out whether he would be here today. On August 13 the clerk received a letter from the lawyers, Cassels Brock. They indicated that there were some problems and he wouldn't be able to attend, because of lateness. I accept that.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
We can go through these all together, because you do have the letters. However, there's a lot more in this letter that the clerk's office, through the chair, did not advise.... He was not advised of the procedures in place. He has not received any confirmation, and this is the August 13 letter, of his travel expenses being reimbursed. This gentleman lives in Newfoundland. He requires a little more time to make travel plans.
Let's talk about Mr. Irving Gerstein, whose housekeeper received the summons. Mr. Gerstein is not in the country. I suspect that he'll be in the courtroom, the real one. He was not served with a summons, and this goes to the issue of your making claims that everybody was served.
Now, here's the big one. I'm really concerned.
You don't have the floor, Mr. Hubbard. I'm sure you will have it eventually, but you don't now.
Mr. Muttart has been in touch with your office.
No, no, I'm going through these in my order. It's my point of order. You're not the chair of the committee. I know you want to be. We'll just answer them all at once, right?
Mr. Muttart—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order. Order, please.
Respectfully, Mr. Goodyear, I really do think that if you're going to raise the name in with some facts, if I have anything that will help anybody understand, we could tick them off as we go through them.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
But that's not to suggest that I'm satisfied with your answers.
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
Well, then, what's the point? Write it down and give it to me.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I just want you to know what I was aware of and when, based on our records.
Liberal
Conservative
Conservative
Gary Goodyear Conservative Cambridge, ON
I don't want brief. Just take the time and give me the full truth.
Mr. Chair, you said you don't have all these records. You're telling me you've got some brief notes. Please, I'm trying to get through the whole thing here. I will give you until tomorrow morning to get this information, but right now.... We're going to get half an answer here. I know you guys are happy with half an answer.