Evidence of meeting #49 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Senior Counsel, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
Well, the difficulty is that cases, even complex cases, vary so much in their circumstances, in the kinds of issues—charter issues or evidentiary issues or whatever issues—they might raise that there is no predictability in the abstract for saying how long a complex case would take.
That said, the point you've made is that complex matters can take, in some cases, years to make their way through the courts after charges are laid, and I would have to agree with you that this is indeed a reality.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I would suggest that we need to know well in advance of that just what the rules are, because if the Conservatives did nothing wrong, then they're enjoying a legal unfair competitive advantage over the rest of us who don't exceed our national spending limits. In other words, until somebody says clearly that what they did was wrong, and if we have another election in six or twelve months, then the other parties had better do the same thing to create a level playing field. They spent millions of dollars more than their national spending limit by this scheme and put us other parties at a huge disadvantage.
It just reinforces in my mind the importance of what this committee is doing. I don't think this issue will get an airing in the courts before we have another federal election. There has to be an election by October 2009.
Do you think this matter will be resolved in the courts by October 2009?
Senior Counsel, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
As I said, Mr. Martin, there are too many unknown factors to be able to make even an uncertain prediction.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
But realistically, sir, we're still prosecuting Liberals over the sponsorship scandal. There are guys who have gone to jail in the last month or so.
Do I still have time, sir?
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
The test applied, you've said, was whether there's a reasonable likelihood of conviction, I suppose. Is that one of the tests you told about, Mr. Beardall?
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
The actual wording in our prosecution policy manual is “the reasonable prospect of conviction”.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Concerning the search warrant or the raid on the offices of the Conservative Party headquarters, was your office consulted in any way, shape, or form about how that might take place, or was it strictly the elections commissioner and the police, in the investigative stage?
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
I'm respectfully going to decline, Mr. Martin, to answer that question on the basis that it's protected by solicitor-client privilege.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Fair enough.
The justification in the affidavit to obtain the search warrant cited that “The CONSERVATIVE FUND CANADA...did incur election expenses...the total amount of which exceeded the maximum amount allowed for the election expenses of the Conservative Party”--etc., and it also stated that the Conservative Fund Canada--“knew or ought reasonably to have known” that the filings contained “a materially false and misleading statement”, contrary to certain sections of the Elections Act.
Do you know what the penalties would be in the Criminal Code for those two offences should they be successfully prosecuted?
Senior Counsel, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
The offences would be set out in the Elections Act. Off the top of my head, no, I don't know what the penalties are for those particular offences.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
So those penalties are unique to the Elections Act, and the penalties are in the Elections Act alone. I see.
How am I doing for time, Mr. Chairman?
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I'd like to return to the issue of solicitor-client privilege. In your opening statement, madam, did you say that you couldn't give testimony on anything involving this particular motion that the committee is reviewing?
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
What I wanted to convey to the committee in my opening statement was that, should Mr. Beardall or I be asked any questions about what legal advice may have been sought by Elections Canada or provided by the PPSC, we wouldn't be in a position to assist the committee, because those matters are protected by solicitor-client privilege.
Conservative
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
In a 1999 decision of the Supreme Court of Canada called Regina v. Shirose, the Supreme Court recognized that the advice provided by crown counsel to investigative agencies during the investigative stage is protected by solicitor-client privilege.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
I thank you for that.
I guess what I'm asking you is, when did this particular solicitor-client privilege arise?
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
It would have arisen when the advice was sought and provided.
Acting Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
Quite frankly, I'm not certain when Elections Canada first spoke to one of our crowns. I can tell you that I had contact with them several months ago.
