Evidence of meeting #49 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, I'm not in a position to comment on or respond to this question. We're talking about several transactions. I can't give you a definitive answer, I'm sorry.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Is it legal for a federal party to download an expense after it's been signed off by the federal arbitrator, dealing with media specifically?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The Elections Act, as I indicated earlier, does not allow for the transfer of expenses. It allows for the transfer of funds, goods, and services, but not expenses.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
You may or may not be able to answer this, but is it not the role of the federal arbitrator specifically to make sure spending limits are adhered to?
François Bernier Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada
Are you referring to the broadcast arbitrator?
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
Yes. Is it legal for a party to download expenses after they've been signed off? Is it not the role of the broadcast arbitrator to make sure spending limits are adhered to?
Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada
No, that is a responsibility of Elections Canada. The functions of the broadcast arbitrator are centred on the allocation of free and paid time to political parties, and so on, and ensuring that networks and parties respect those rules.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
So just for free advertising, not for paid advertising...?
Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada
As you know, in an election parties are guaranteed a certain amount of paid advertising time at the lowest available rate. He will see to the application of that.
In terms of reporting the expense, that's political financing. That's the responsibility of Elections Canada as such.
Liberal
Karen Redman Liberal Kitchener Centre, ON
So the media arbitrator makes sure it's fair amongst parties. Then by extension, would it be legal for a party, after having signed them off through that process, to download those expenses to individual ridings? Would that not certainly be breaking the spirit if not the letter of the law?
Director, Legal Services, Elections Canada
I think we may take the broadcasting arbitrator out of this equation. The answer is simply, as the CEO has indicated, you cannot transfer expenses. I think that's the best answer I can give you.
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Let's just pick up where you left off. It is illegal to transfer expenses. You did say that, you did explain it the last time you were here. We got a document about the 67 candidates who in fact paid the expenses for what seems to us to be the national secretariat of the Conservative Party. The excess expenses allegedly total nearly $1.3 million.
In the testimony we have heard this week, we learned that at least one Conservative candidate who was involved in what might be called an in-and-out transaction is not on the list of 67 candidates who are the subject of the present investigation. That candidate is Liberato Martelli, in Bourassa riding, and he says he received a $14,000 in-and-out transfer. His financial statement submitted to your offices at Elections Canada show this. He says he met with one of your investigators. In fact, when we look at his electoral campaign return, we see that he received $10,750 from the Conservative Party. In that financial statement, it states that this was not an advertising expense. I checked for the other candidates, and the amount is shown in the advertising column—there is a little radio/TV column beside the "other" column—but in his case it is shown in the office expenses column. So he apparently had a $10,750 expense, and he says these were not his own expenses, it was money that was taken by the Conservative Party. In addition, he tells us that Michel Rivard, a Conservative Party employee, came to his office to do the financial statement and did not show him anything or explain anything to him. He told him to sign here and there and he left.
Can you tell me whether it is possible for there to be another system that would mean that these expenses are shown not in the advertising column but in the office expenses column?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Once again, I do not want to comment on open cases. I can confirm, and this is clear from the public records, that Mr. Martelli's situation is not connected with the media buy case.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Is Mr. Martelli's situation connected with another situation?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
We are in fact questioning the expenses.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Don't give me any names just now, but have you seen situations like Mr. Martelli's in other financial statements?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Once again, I prefer not to comment on open cases that are still under review.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
You understand that if there is another parallel system, it would be useful to know. In any event, we will know it at some point. In any case, it is clear that there is at least one.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I did say that Mr. Martelli's case is still under review.
Bloc
Bloc
