Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 14th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand.

Mr. Goodyear, you raised a point of order--

[An hon. member]

It was not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Excuse me. I told you, sir, that I would get the blues from August 12. I got the blues. About midnight last night I finally finished with my responses to each and every point you raised, sir, about information requests you asked for, their status, and can you get this and other things. And I made other statements that you wanted me to explain.

I have them. There are 22 points. I think it would take about a half-hour to present them to you--each and every one--as I had undertaken. I don't want to have to do that now in the middle of our other business. This is a matter I was hoping to deal with after we dealt with witnesses.

If the committee wants me to deal with your 22 questions, I will do that, but I don't think it's the right thing to do.

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I have the answers for you here. Whenever you want the half-hour to 45-minute presentation of my response to all your questions you issued in a 25-minute speech to this committee, I will do it.

Now, I have no more speakers.

[An hon. member]

Everybody wants to speak.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

The last time I looked, they were rubbed out.

Okay. Madam Redman, you have the floor.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank Madame Proulx and Mr. Beardall and apologize for what you've had to witness.

You mentioned in one of your earlier comments, Ms. Proulx, that the mandate for the Director of Public Prosecutions is about 18 months old. Is that correct?

[Chantal Proulx]

We were created on December 12, 2006.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

As whip, from time to time I recognize that the Canada Elections Act is pretty prescriptive. I have had members investigated for sometimes very minor infractions—sometimes it's paperwork—and that is brought to my attention. Those kinds of small issues would never come to you, would they?

[Chantal Proulx]

It's difficult to answer your question, because a decision whether or not to seek our advice is one that's made by Elections Canada. I can't tell you when they would or would not seek our advice.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Can you just clarify for me—and I know other questioners have touched on this—how many cases Elections Canada has referred to your department in the 18 months?

[Chantal Proulx]

Are you asking me how many cases they've referred for prosecution or how many times they have asked for advice?

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Both.

[Chantal Proulx]

In terms of referrals for prosecution, I believe Madame Lavallée asked me the same question. There has been one case. The charges were laid.

In terms of seeking our advice, there have been a number of occasions. How many specifically I don't think I can tell you, because it's possible that I wouldn't be personally aware of every call an Elections Canada investigator may have made.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Okay.

Having you called in is obviously very serious, and you've talked about the two-pronged test that you have, as to whether it's in the public interest or the possibility of success in the prosecution. You've clearly laid that out, and I appreciate it.

My colleague Mr. Martin talked about the search warrant. There must be criteria by which you decide whether or not you're going to put in for a search warrant. I don't know what the right word is; I guess it would be to “enact” a search warrant. Can you tell us what the test is for deciding whether or not that course of action would be followed in part of an investigation?

[Chantal Proulx]

Just to be clear, the application for a search warrant is made by an investigator, and we assist them with preparing the application.

The test is set out in whatever section under which the search warrant is being applied for. There are a number of sections contained within the Criminal Code that authorize different kinds of searches. The most commonly used section in the Criminal Code is section 487. Generally an investigator who is seeking a warrant under section 487 would have to demonstrate reasonable grounds for believing that an offence has been committed and that evidence of the offence is in the place to be searched.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

There has been a fair amount of questioning by my Conservative colleagues around the possible leak concerning that search warrant. When we asked these same questions of Elections Canada, what we were told by Mr. Mayrand was that they had done an internal investigation and satisfied themselves that there had been no leak from Elections Canada.

I'm just wondering whether, as item number one, any charges or questions were made about your department, and number two, whether there was any investigation made to ensure that if there had been a leak, it had not come from the deputy director of public prosecutions or anybody who works for you.

[Don Beardall]

I am certainly not aware of any inquiry from Elections Canada to us regarding the matter of a possible leak.

With respect to the Public Prosecution Service, we have no credible information—or no information at all—that would give an air of reality to any suggestion that a leak emanated from the PPSC. That said, we have made internal inquiries, and those inquiries have again yielded no information that would justify any further inquiries or investigation.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

So one can assume from your statement, Mr. Beardall, that you are satisfied that there was no leak from your department.

[Don Beardall]

That's correct.

[Karen Redman, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

Ms. Proulx, I just want to go back to where I was a minute ago. You indicated that you had a conversation with Mr. Szabo a couple of weeks ago. Would that be accurate?

[Chantal Proulx]

Yes.