Evidence of meeting #49 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was elections.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Does nothing come to mind? Surely there were expenses used that were transferred.
Certainly the Conservative Party exceeded its limit, and we are not talking about just $1.1 or $1.3 million. Surely we are talking about $2 to $3 million.
I know there are several kinds of expenses. I am not asking you to state the names of the candidates.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Once again, with some regret, I have to say, as I said in my letter to the committee, that there are four situations currently being reviewed.
I do not believe it would be appropriate to comment on this until the review has been completed. Something that might be there today may not be there tomorrow.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Are the four situations you are talking about public?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
We understand that they involve advertising, survey and office expenses, but something is missing.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
On the question of surveys, that is a complaint that the media have covered and that was sent to one of the committee members. Following the usual procedure, that complaint has been referred to the Commissioner.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Thank you.
You told the committee today and at other meetings that there are no situations in which expenses could be transferred.
Are there cases where the central party may transfer expenses to candidates?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Expenses, no. Property, services and funds may be transferred, but not expenses. It has to be the party's expense or a candidate's expense.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
That is the answer I wanted to here. Perfect. Thank you.
In terms of legal counsel.... You have a legal department, I would imagine?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
How many people would be in the legal department, more or less?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Are they people with experience? They would have experience. They're all professionals, I would imagine; they have law degrees. Right?
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
So the question is this—and I'm trying to tie it in with the previous witnesses. When do you deem it necessary to consult with the Public Prosecution Service of Canada?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I should point out that there's a legal department at Elections Canada that consists of about 8 to 10 lawyers. As well, the commissioner's office has its own legal counsel separate from Elections Canada.
Liberal
Massimo Pacetti Liberal Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC
Okay, when does your office deem it necessary to consult with the Public Prosecution Service of Canada?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Elections Canada does not consult with the DPP; it would be the commissioner's office.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order, sir.
Mr. Pacetti, unfortunately your time has expired. I gave you one minute and you just kept going. I understand, but you can get on the list again.
Mr. Del Mastro, please.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Mayrand, this morning we uncovered a number of what I'd call inconvenient truths at this committee. We weren't supposed to be able to uncover any inconvenient truths at this committee because none of our witnesses were allowed, and it's really been a forum that's been largely stacked against the Conservative Party, but we did.
I want to go back to what Mr. Tilson was talking about—and we pulled this together in a few minutes. There are 40 Liberal and NDP candidates or members—there are 10 members on this list—whose returns have been flagged. That's the word that's been used by the members of the jury. Their returns have been flagged. Now, none of these people—and I'm not asking you to refer to any one of them.... But if you haven't posted the return, then Elections Canada has not provided any of these ridings with rebates, have they?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Not necessarily. Again, I'm not familiar with the list you're referring to, but what I would like to point out is that, according to the act, when a return is sent after the election by the campaign, it has to be posted as presented. After that, there's a review that takes place. It takes various periods of time depending on the issue, the circumstances, etc.
Again, I could not attest to that list, but yes, there are returns still under review.
Conservative
Dean Del Mastro Conservative Peterborough, ON
They're under review and they haven't received their rebate.
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I want to make another point. You have to distinguish between a review and an investigation. You cannot assume that because something is under review it is necessarily under investigation by the commissioner's office.