Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 14th, 2008

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I object.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I object.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair....

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I don't know why you're smirking and laughing, sir, but--

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Because you're cutting me off.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Exactly. This is not a point of order.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It is a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No, it's debate. You are giving opinion, sir. That's debate.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's what you're doing, sir. You are jumping into things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Sir, sir.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Here we go again. It's going to play out again. Go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I've called order. Order. I called order. Okay?

Sir, my ruling is that it is not a point of order, it's a matter of debate. Okay? I thank you for your comments, but I think we shouldn't be jumping into points of order that we're not sure.... We had this yesterday. I have given rulings. I know that you haven't been here for all the hearings, but I have given references from Marleau and Montpetit related to points of order, particularly with regard to debates on points of order, which are permitted at the discretion of the chair. And that is in Marleau and Montpetit. I'll get you the reference after the meeting so that you know that.

Now, I understand Mr. Goodyear also had a point of order.

Please, sir.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank you for getting us a few of the documents we requested this morning.

On one of the documents you handed to us this morning, and I'll read it, it says: “Hi Erica, As discussed, some of the witnesses remain not served...”. Doug Finley may have been summonsed, but he was never served. Again, sir, you are--

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

We have witnesses. This was a scheduled agenda item for later in the meeting, to discuss people who were summonsed and failed to attend. This has nothing do with hearing witnesses.

They're disrupting the meeting. They're goading you into wasting time, and they're wasting all of our time. We're not going to let them...[Inaudible--Editor]...until the clock runs out and we're finished.

[An hon. member]

We're here all day.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I asked you yesterday, Mr. Chairman--

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I'm not done, Mr. Chair.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

--to start ruling like a chairman. Don't let these guys dominate these proceedings.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I'm not finished.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.

Please, everybody understands the situation we are in and what's going on. We don't have to explain that. I don't think any other party would like to be in the same position and have to take these actions, but this is the reality. It's nice to play the roles, but ultimately we are all being held accountable by our performance and what we do here.

I encourage members to remember that we are being observed. It is a reflection not only on ourselves but on other colleagues and Parliament. We need to do better. We wouldn't get away with this nonsense in business. Outside of the parliamentary sphere, you wouldn't last a day like this, and you all know it.

I want members to please tone it down. You have rights, but with those rights come responsibilities. You have the right to speak, but you have the responsibility to speak at the right time in the right way, and I expect all honourable members will take that into consideration.

Mr. Goodyear was on a point of order. Please let him finish it.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I hope you noticed that I was very calm and respectful. I remain that way.

I just heard you say that Doug Finley was summonsed. I have documents from your office that say his summons was never served. We had this discussion yesterday about you misleading the committee and the media. I'm wondering if you will take the opportunity now to confirm from your own documents that Mr. Finley was never served with a summons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

You have misquoted what I said. It was that I had issued the summons, not that he was served. If you say someone was summonsed, as opposed to the chair issuing a summons, they're different. When you want to play with words, that's fine.

Mr. Finley was here on Monday. He was here on Monday.

[An hon. member]

We have a witness here, and we're supposed to be discussing the work of the committee.