Information & Ethics Committee on Aug. 14th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Just give me a moment, because I will get you the precise dates.

I was in Durham, North Carolina, visiting my daughter and my granddaughter. I had my granddaughter on my lap, sitting on the couch, looking at hummingbirds.

Excuse me, but I think people will want to understand the tactic that Mr. Del Mastro has tried to pull here.

This was in July, the last week of July, after we had the hearings. Madame Proulx called me because she had been advised that the committee, at its prior hearings, had requested that the public prosecutor's office appear. She asked me the question, “What does the committee what us to do?”

I have never talked to Madame Proulx. It was a call to me out of the blue, and I said, “Three parties have asked for you to appear. The clerk will be in touch with you. I don't know what their interest is.” That was the extent.

In fact, Mr. Saunders, the public prosecutor, called me subsequently, still having some questions about whether or not they should appear, because of their solicitor-client relationship and because of a potential sub judice issue. It wasn't until last week that Mr. Saunders finally agreed to be a witness.

So on this idea that I had misled the committee, I didn't know they were a witness. I make no contacts myself.

[An hon. member]

On a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Excuse me.

I made no contacts with an approved witness and certainly did not discuss side deals. There are no side deals with anyone. Mr. Walsh's letter with regard to the sub judice convention has been provided to anybody who raises the issue, and that's how the committee operates. That's it.

So as to my role—and I answered that question—with regard to third-party witnesses, you know I have contact with Mr. Mayrand. I was instructed by the committee to do that. But with regard to the public prosecutor's office, I have no idea why people put it on, but I initiated no phone calls.

[An hon. member]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

That is the answer to it. So all of the information that you provided, Mr. Del Mastro, was false and misleading, and you should apologize for the misinformation. Okay?

Go ahead.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Chair, you said that you had no contact with any witness at any time. Those are your words, not mine.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

At the time, they were not a witness.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

No, that's not true, Mr. Chair. You've also indicated when the witness list was drawn up, because you've indicated that our witnesses were unreasonable for not showing up.

Mr. Chair, you've indicated—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I initiated no contact with any witness.

We're moving on. Thank you.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Mr. Chair, you indicated that you had no contact with any witness at any time. The witness has indicated otherwise. Is that truth according to a Liberal or not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Well, sir, I have shaken hands with every witness. I suppose you are going to have to say, because I shook hands and said hello—

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Is that straight up, according to a Liberal, or not?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I mean, I've met a lot of witnesses.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Saying you didn't when you did, and then trying to justify it by asking for an apology from somebody who's pointing out that there are significant inconsistencies with your actions with respect to this committee, with your conduct, with your statements, here you've been caught bold-faced, saying one thing and having done another. I'm just really curious as to how you'd like to respond to that, other than to say it didn't happen, or I was listening to the hummingbirds, or whatever you're saying you were doing. Clearly, you said one thing and did another.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

Mr. Nadeau, you're our second last speaker.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, Mrs. Proulx, Mr. Beardall.

Has the Public Prosecution Service received a file from the Commissioner of Canada Elections regarding the subject being studied by the committee?

[Chantal Proulx]

As I said in reply to other questions I have been asked, we have been and continue to be consulted by the Elections Commissioner. However, I cannot disclose the content of those conversations. We have not received a file from the Commissioner asking the Director of the Public Prosecution Service to exercise his discretion and decide whether or not to lay charges.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Is it necessary for the Elections Commissioner to make a complaint in order for you to act?

[Chantal Proulx]

Under the Act, yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

If I understand correctly, you may not, of your own accord—when I say "you" I am referring to the Public Prosecution Service—lay a charge.

[Chantal Proulx]

We are not investigators, we do not lay charges. Once charges are laid, we take over the case and conduct the prosecution.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

We are meeting here because the Conservative Party had excess spending on the order of $1.3 million in the last election. That party is the only one that is being investigated, when there were 15 other parties that presented candidates in the last election campaign. Sixty-seven of its candidates, some of whom have become MPs and others ministers, are under the Elections Canada microscope.

Do you conduct other kinds of investigations? For example, the Bernier-Couillard, Cannon and Obama cases have been in the news. Were you contacted, or at least consulted, by the government about those cases? Are there other cases that have been reported to the Public Prosecution Service?

[Chantal Proulx]

The decision as to whether to initiate an investigation is made by the investigative agencies alone. If, in the course of an investigation, they want to obtain advice about any case under investigation, they may contact us. However, I cannot comment on the cases to which you refer.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I would like to ask you a question about the "mechanics" in terms of Parliament. What kind of budget do you have?

[Chantal Proulx]

What kind in terms of size?