Evidence of meeting #14 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, but they need certain skills, of course.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
No, no, I know.
Forgive me again, but could you explain what you really mean by “We are finding that competitions for the position of compliance advisors are more successful when opened to the public, but this results in longer staffing processes”. Can you elaborate on that?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It's interesting that you raise that question. Just this afternoon I was discussing with my staff that we put an open competition out recently for two of those positions. There were public who applied, but we ended up staffing both positions from within the public service. So I'm wondering if that very sentence is as true as I thought it was when I did it a day or two ago. That seemed to be the common understanding, but I'm not sure that sentence is a hundred per cent true. It's interesting that we put it out to the general public and ended up getting two from the public service.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We opened it originally to the public service and didn't qualify anyone. Then we opened it to the public and the two people who got the job were public servants.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't know what happened there, but inherently, going to the general public takes a longer time.
Denise, maybe you can explain why.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Well, of course, we get many more applications.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. It's the number.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Exactly.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
You have to weed through a whole bunch of applications rather than a smaller number.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If I may add to that, two of the vacant positions we're staffing are new positions. There was a lot of effort spent on developing the organizational structure, so now we've reached a point where we're ready to staff.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
You did mention, when you touched on it just briefly, that now there would be less pulling out of your hair and less overtime. Are these positions paid overtime? As well, for the compliance officer, because you're understaffed...? So the $80,000 range is basically the base salary and that has nothing to do with benefits. On average, what would have been the overtime paid?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Do you know, Denise?
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Very few people actually ask for the overtime; they usually take it in time. We have a very small budget for overtime.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
But wouldn't that result...? I always chuckle when I hear that they take it in time, because they're actually getting paid but without having to pay any tax. So it's $80,000, but I still don't understand how it won't continue to be an ongoing problem.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think the staffing issue will continue to be an ongoing problem. I've come to accept that, but I think we have an office that's a lot stronger now than when we came in, and my hope is that we will have reached a certain level of stability. My hope is that it will slow down a bit, but all I can do is deal with what I have.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
So a compliance officer basically is responsible for what, following up on delinquent reporting?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. Actually, they do two main things. Each compliance officer has a certain number of individuals assigned to them as the people they look after. They spend quite a bit of time with some of those people, trying to figure out what to do about holdings that they may have to put in trust or whether they can take part in certain outside activities. They spend a lot of time advising them, both in connection with their declaration each year, but also with a lot of calls for general advice, particularly from those who call about gifts and things like that. The area of gifts is a very misunderstood and difficult area.
They spend their time advising, primarily, and then writing up justifications. A number of things have to come to me for final decisions, so they'll put out the facts, and we keep everything documented. That's what they spend their time on.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you. That was a little quicker than I thought.
Hello, Ms. Dawson. It's good to see you again.
I would like to follow up a little on what my colleague was asking in terms of the Senate. I'm very interested in the differences between the House of Commons and the Senate in regard to the processes of addressing alleged conflicts of interest. Do you feel that your ability to do your job would be negatively affected if you had to receive the approval of a committee of the House before you could proceed with an investigation?
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
I have a follow-up question to that. Do you think the current Senate model would be an appropriate model for the House of Commons conflict of interest code?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. I think it's hard enough the way it is now. I wouldn't want any more impediments.
Conservative
