Information & Ethics Committee on April 27th, 2009

[Christiane Ouimet]

This is part of the next annual report that will be tabled in a matter of days or weeks.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

And in that report you will list how many founded complaints occurred?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Correct.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

So you have not yet publicly revealed the discovery of founded complaints.

[Christiane Ouimet]

That's right.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay. I'm not saying that you have to. All of us are hoping that there is no need, that our public service is functioning well enough that there aren't any founded cases of wrongdoing. Nevertheless, we would like to know if you believe the law constrains you from finding that wrongdoing. Or do you believe you have a legal mandate to reach the truth?

[Christiane Ouimet]

In fact, this is a very good question. We've worked with various former officials who said in the end you want a joint quest for the truth. In my next annual report, our choice is not only to investigate or not act upon; in fact, in some cases we've acted with the full force of sharing the information and come up with practical solutions in very specific cases.

I didn't want to pre-empt the tabling of the next annual report. That's the reason I--

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

If I could just pull us back to the question again, do you believe that you have the legal mandate to seek the truth when you're investigating complaints?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Without a doubt.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay. What kind of professional investigators do you have on your team?

[Christiane Ouimet]

We have a combination of skills, and in fact, I saluted your earlier comment to ensure that we have a variety of expertise. My deputy commissioner has spent more than 37 years with the Department of Justice and is one of the top experts in administrative law. My general counsel, Joe Friday, has a unique expertise and is one of the experts in Canada in alternative dispute resolution. We have a combination of people with expertise in investigations, of course, and public administration.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Could you give us some examples of people who are professional investigators in your team?

[Christiane Ouimet]

One of them has worked for a number of years at the Canada Border Services Agency and has worked in the area of labour relations and harassment.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

All of this stuff is very important and very good, and I would salute you for having all of those people, but I want to know about investigators. You listed dispute resolution and public administration, legal counsel, and you can't function without any of those things; however, I'm striking right at the core of who you have on your team who is a professional investigator, maybe a police officer or an RCMP investigator. Do you have anyone like that?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Yes, in fact, the lady I was just talking about was a professional investigator with the Canadian Border Services Agency. We do have somebody, a former police officer, who was with the City of Ottawa. We've just recruited a new person who has some financial background and has been with the bankruptcy superintendent doing investigations there. We also have somebody who comes from the Solicitor General portfolio with expertise in investigations. As well, the registrar has again some expertise in mediation, in legal investigation processes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Okay. Would it be possible for you to write our committee and list the number of career investigators you have in the office? I know you've done a good job here and it's been hard for us to absorb all of that, but perhaps reiterate what you've just said and be very tangible in listing their investigatory experience throughout their career.

[Christiane Ouimet]

I'd be happy to.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Thank you so much.

[Christiane Ouimet]

I should point out as well that I've headed criminal fraud investigation at Customs, and as well, I've had a lot of experience in administrative investigations. I think that also is part of my experience.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Good. It sounds like you have plenty of it, and I was very pleased to see your appointment at the outset.

As one of the authors of this legislation, I want to make sure it's working in a practical sense. Do you believe that Parliament has given you the resources to do your job?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Certainly.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

So you have the legal mandate and the resources. If there were additional tools you required, what would they be?

[Christiane Ouimet]

I think it's a little early to tell, but first of all, we need to establish very clearly the parameters of the legislation. Every time you have a new case you have to look at the specific piece of legislation, so it will be demand driven, but also it will be based on the specific cases that come to us. But we are absolutely recording all of those elements.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I had some concerns about the accessibility of your office under its legal mandate for RCMP officers. I wonder if you can give assurances that RCMP personnel are able to come to you if they believe they have witnessed wrongdoing.

[Christiane Ouimet]

In fact, there's very detailed legislation that is applicable to the RCMP. In fact, one of our lawyers has acute, very extensive experience in litigation and disciplinary matters for the RCMP.