Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 11th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Yes, in fact there are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We have no more members on the list.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

I didn't know there was a deadline. I'm sorry, I had my hand up a few minutes ago.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I think we've indicated to members that if they'd like to speak on a matter, they should get the attention of the clerk and have their name on the list. When the list is complete—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Can we not use the system we'd agreed upon?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We did, but if people have not indicated that they wanted to speak—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Well, he's indicated it. So....

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Well, he has now, that's fine.

But I think for all honourable members, we understand that we have witnesses here and that if members have questions for the witnesses, they should be sure to get the attention of the clerk to have their name on the list to speak in the appropriate order.

Okay, Mr. Woodworth.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Just so I understand the procedure in the event that I come back to this committee, are you saying that we must at the outset announce our intention to ask a question?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

At the outset?

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

At the outset. I just want to know, because a few minutes ago, I did get the attention of the clerk and I did indicate my intention to ask a question while someone else was speaking. But if the idea is at the outset—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

The normal practice is for a member just to hold up their hand and get the attention of the clerk.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Which is what I did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Let's put it down to confusion, but carry on, please.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I have some interest in the issue of the audit function for which the supplementary estimates money, or part of it, is being allocated. I know that in today's environment the question of measuring results is very important, and of course the Auditor General from time to time wants to do that very thing and cannot accomplish that function unless the department involved has measures in place and information gathering.

I understood from some of the earlier answers that this initiative has been in the works for three years, and it's now in the final year, and consequently additional funding is required. I heard some comment about the process being to appoint an advisory committee, unless I misheard that, and prepare a risk-based audit plan. So I just wanted to get a little more detail about that. Some of the questions I would have about it are whether that advisory committee is already in place, and has the risk-based audit plan already been prepared? How much of this allocation is addressing that particular issue? Can you, without too many words and without taking too much of our time today, tell me what it is that the audit will be measuring in general terms? I would be grateful.

Thank you.

[Tom Pulcine]

It will take me a second to find the exact number in terms of the dollar value for the audit, but I do have the number with me. As I flip through this, I'll try to respond to the other elements of your question.

The policy requires organizations, departments, and agencies to put in place an audit committee. That audit committee is what you reference as an advisory committee. That actually might have been the word I said earlier. The audit committee has to be independent of the organization itself, so the policy says that the audit committee must have as majority members people who are external to the organization. Internal audit by definition is a management function, so it's a committee then, even though it's made up of external members, who will in fact be providing advice, in this case, to the commissioner who is responsible for the organization. I might have said “advisory” as opposed to “audit” committee.

You asked as well, is the risk-based audit plan put together? It's currently drafted. It was a process we contracted out. We hired a consulting firm, a professional audit firm, to do that piece of work. That audit plan is going to be presented to the committee this month, two weeks from now.

Another element of your question was, have the audit committee members been selected? They have been. Their names are Laurel Murray, who is a CA, as as well Jocelyne Côté-O’Hara, who are both independent, don't work for the federal public service.

In terms of the amount, just give me a second, I'll try to find it.

[Lisa Campbell]

While Mr. Pulcine is looking at that, I can say that I had input into the work that they were doing.

One of the goals of the committee was to try to identify areas that needed audit immediately in the organization. For example, things like backlog; where do we need to allocate resources to ensure that we can create efficiencies so that we're giving service to the public in a timely manner? That's one of the main goals of the committee as well, and to identify future areas of need, for example on the technology side, as I pointed out.

[Tom Pulcine]

I have found the number. To support that program when it's fully implemented, it will be $140,000 in salary and $200,000 in other operating expenses, so approximately $340,000 in total.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Thank you.

I've heard that the measurement will be at least of timeliness and backlog issues. Are there quality measurements that are possible in this area, and what would they be or how would one articulate them?

[Tom Pulcine]

The preparation on the risk-based audit plan is about an organization measuring its risk, and part of that consideration is stuff that obviously the organization feels is important to its operation, its core functions. So things like investigations and inquiries will be subject to an internal audit over the course of two or three years. Using that--we'll use it as an example, though it's not the only example--you will look at the efficiencies of those operations as well.

So I guess the short answer to your question is yes.

[Stephen Woodworth, Conservative, Kitchener Centre, ON]

All right. I will wait to hear further details as they develop. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Poilievre, s'il vous plaît.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Can you describe some of your other promotional activities, particularly those targeted towards young people?

[Lisa Campbell]

We do a lot of outreach. In the legal shop, for example, we now have under way a legal essay contest. We've asked law schools across Canada to submit essays on areas of one of our four policy priorities. The policy priorities are genetic privacy, national security, information technology, and identity management. One of the things we've found, for example, when recruiting lawyers to work, is that this is a new area of law; there aren't many people trained in this area. There are more and more starting, but it's still so new that we need to reach that demographic.

To reach youth, we have a youth website now. We have the video competition that we mentioned to raise awareness in high schools. We also do a lot of public speaking and targeted outreach to youth. We have promotional materials that are designed just for them, explaining in accessible, plain language the implications for them of the things they do online, such as participating in social networks, that sort of thing.