Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 26th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'd like to get a copy of it, because it has to go on the record.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I think the responsible way to proceed on this is what we've done. We're showing goodwill. This was a very helpful suggestion. I obviously want to take a closer look at the wording.

I think it would be a little more responsible if we put exact timing on the response. It would be helpful. Just as Mr. Siksay had noted, we want to show goodwill, we want to work with the minister, but we haven't been encouraged by the responses that we've received to date. I think we need to provide timing, perhaps. The report was tabled in the second week of June, so we're getting close to a half a year wherein the minister has had an opportunity to go through all those points. Your suggestion was that we have it before us when we come back after the Christmas break. I would suggest that we do a friendly amendment to Mr. Del Mastro's motion, removing the wording “without delay” and inserting instead specifically that we would request this be no later than whatever the Friday is of the second week of January.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Consider that a friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Dechert.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Obviously, I support Mr. Del Mastro's motion. I think it's getting at the crux of the issue we've all been discussing for the last few minutes.

I did want to respond to a comment you made earlier, though, that you thought the minister seemed to be asking us to write the new act for him, in both the Privacy Act situation and the Access to Information Act review. I don't see it that way at all. I think he seemed very clear, in both letters, that what he would like us to do is more public consultation, and that's the role of this committee, as I see it. He's not asking us to suggest the wording. He's saying, in the letter of November 25, with regard to the access to information review:

I wish to stress that the most productive and effective activity that your Committee could undertake would be to conduct a full study of access reform, with a particular focus on the Discussion Paper.

It goes on to say, “Once you have undertaken and completed a full, in-depth study of access reform and consulted all stakeholders”--which is what the committee normally does--“I'd be happy to appear before you to discuss your further findings.”

In the letter responding to our report on the Privacy Act, he sets out several areas of clear guidance about where he would like us to do some further work, and specifically says, “Further consultation with government institutions and agencies...responsible for the security as well as the health and welfare of Canadians would be required....”

That's what he's asking us to do, not to write the wording of the legislation, and I think those are reasonable requests.

I think these are pretty reasonable responses from the minister, and I think he has given us a clear indication of what he would like us to do. I think these are things that would be in the public interest, so I would recommend that we undertake those further consultations so that we can say with certainty to the people we represent--

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Are you absolutely sure it's a point of order and that I won't have to say it's not a point of order?

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

My point of order is that the comments of Mr. Dechert, while they may be constructive, aren't germane to the amendment put forward by Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. I assume the motion you put on the floor was an amendment to the motion. I would suggest that maybe we could stick to the amendment.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Mr. Chair, my name was on the list before he made it, but I'm happy to step aside. We can deal with that amendment and then we can move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

First of all, there was no motion to amend.

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No, no, there was no motion to amend. It was a suggestion, part of his commentary. He didn't say, “I move an amendment”, etc. This is how we do that. So your point of order is not a point of order. However--

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Hopefully, I won't be so rudely interrupted by my colleague again.

To conclude--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Let's hear it, Mr. Dechert.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

To your point, I want to simply clarify the point you made earlier. I think the minister is not saying to go away and write the legislation for the government; he's saying please do some more public consultation on these very important areas. They deserve further study, and I'd be very much appreciative if you did that. I'd like to hear those views. Once you've done that, I'd be happy to come back, appear before the committee and discuss them with the committee. That seems to me a very reasonable way to proceed.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

I think we have to finish it off here. We have Mr. Siksay, Madam Simson, and Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, and then we'll see if we can move on to dispose of this area.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to propose an amendment, and not having the exact wording in front of me, it's a little difficult for me to do this as accurately as I would like, so I'll need some help.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, all right.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I'd like to amend the motion to request a response by January 25, 2010, which is when Parliament resumes for the spring session. I would also like to add a request that the minister respond to all of the quick-fix recommendations made by the Privacy Commissioner as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Siksay, the motion does state specifically, the committee requests that the minister address “each recommendation made individually”. So that's all of them, not just the ones we supported.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Then, Chair, I'd like to say, “made individually by the Committee and the Privacy Commissioner”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

For greater certainty?

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Yes. I think it could easily be interpreted that it was just the five recommendations that the committee supported. We need to hear the minister's take on the Privacy Commissioner's recommendations, to honour her work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

All right. That's in order.

We'll have to tidy up the wording, but I think the intent is clear. The members are aware that we're setting a specific date, and for greater certainty, we want a response to all of the recommendations, including the recommendations made by the Privacy Commissioner.

Madam Simson.