Information & Ethics Committee on June 8th, 2010

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Ms. Freeman's motion is not on the table today. We're not debating the motion right now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

She's moved it.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

But is it for debate today?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Of course, it is. It's right now. We are in debate.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's fine. I'm supportive of the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Chair, you say we're debating a motion that I have not seen. I would like a copy of the motion in English, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Hoback, the practice is that if an oral motion is given at committee, it is in order. But I understand your concern.

Madame Freeman, could I ask you, for the information of the committee and for anybody who's interested, to read your motion again slowly?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I can provide a copy to translation services who may be more comfortable... I will read it in French but...

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand, but read it in French. It will be translated. They will hear.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Yes, I know, but—

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I would like to see it in writing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Well, okay.

Please read your motion.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I will read it without providing it to the translators. My motion reads as follows:

That, given the several unsuccessful attempts to serve a summons to appear to Dimitri Soudas and to Jillian Andrews, and given the public nature of these summons, the committee deems these summons to have been duly served and requires that Dimitri Soudas and Jillian Andrews appear before the committee no later than Wednesday June 16, 2010.

There.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Merci.

Mr. Rickford has a point of order.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like some clarification. I'd just love to ask the members this was translated for how many times the words “and” or “the” appeared in what she just read. I've been at this committee and several others where a motion like that has been tabled in English and members of Parliament whose first language is French have asked for a copy in English. There are often words or phrases in a motion that may require further questions for purposes of debate. So if that's what's on the table, then get that copy to me and to my colleagues in English, please.

I appreciate the fact that Madame Freeman has gone to the work of putting it down on a piece of paper in French.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you. I do understand, but I can tell the committee that an oral motion can be made by any member at any time on the subject matter before the committee. It could be simple or it could be complex, but it is in order. Of course, we will have the transcripts from the proceedings, but I've just seen this for the first time now.

We will have it translated. I think we could get it translated fairly quickly, but the thrust of it is that, basically, since people have not appeared, she is requesting that the two people in question, Mr. Soudas and Madam Andrews, be required to appear no later than Wednesday, June 16, 2010.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Respectfully, Mr. Chair, it would be a dangerous precedent by the committee to start trampling or trespassing on my rights with respect to language, for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I understand.

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

I think they actually know a thing or two about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I have made a ruling. This is the long-standing practice of the committee and we are going to proceed with the debate. Okay?

[Christian Paradis, Conservative, Minister of Natural Resources]

Point of order, Mr. Chairman, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Minister, as I had indicated earlier, the practice with regard to having someone who is not a permanent member of the committee speak is conditional on a couple of things: either it has the approval of the committee or no other permanent member wishes to speak. That is with regard to getting on the list to debate a motion. My hesitation, sir, was with regard to the fact that you are not asking to debate but you are raising a point of order.

Respectfully, I can't cite a precedent or a rule with regard to points of order, so it calls for the chair to make a decision. My view is that, for the reason I gave earlier, if you had a large number of people come into the room who wanted to make points of order ad nauseam, the committee could in fact be frustrated in doing its work—it's not you, sir, and it's not the fact that you want to make a point of order, but it's the practice and it would be inconsistent to allow you to do a point of order.

I'm going to rule.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Hoback, we are on a point of order, so I can't entertain a second point of order on top of it. Just a moment.

Minister, whether you are heard at this meeting really is ultimately going to be up to the committee, as you know. We've been through this at the last meeting. The committee has to make a decision, and I would think it would be contradictory to my ruling on speaking in debate to allow you to do a point of order for the same reason. I'm going to rule your request for a point of order to be out of order.

Madame Freeman, we're going back to debate on the motion.