Evidence of meeting #31 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was institutions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In terms of disclosing access to information requests, ideally they should all be posted and there should be a central, searchable database.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The last information I have is four. There may be a few that I'm not aware of at this point, but--
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Here we are talking about open government, and I don't think we've ever had a government that is so closed, in Canadian history. They talk about accountability and transparency and it's anything but.
We have had some bad experiences at this particular committee in terms of trying to get information from the centre of power, where we had witnesses that we called to this committee to find out what was going on and the government changed the rules in the House and now that whole issue has gone to another committee. But the fact of the matter is that this committee was denied access to Mr. Togneri, to Jillian Andrews, and to Dimitri Soudas, who we see on television nearly every night. They weren't allowed to come before this committee to answer to this committee and the Canadian public. So our experience with this government is very poor.
But there is another area that is really troubling, related to access to information. That relates to a rumour that's around the Hill, and maybe you can fill us in on the information. Also, this issue was mentioned in Donald Savoie's book, Power: Where Is It?
So I would ask you the question this way. Do you have any comments on the apparent practice? I don't know whether it's true or not at this stage. Donald Savoie says it is. There is a rumour around here. Do you have any comments on the apparent practices in ministers' offices of senior political staff who have two BlackBerrys, one of which is for a ministerial account and the second is on a personal staffer's account and is therefore not accessible under access to information requests? This system would basically allow staffers to communicate on government activity without the concern of those communications ever being accessible by ATIP. Do you know anything about it?
4:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
No, I don't.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Is there any way you can carry out an investigation? I personally don't know whether it's true. It's been a rumour around here for a long time. I do see people with two BlackBerrys, but is it a way that ministerial offices are trying to circumvent the system by getting around access to information? That wouldn't surprise me if it's true, because as I said, this is a government that's a closed shop. Is there any way you can investigate it?
4:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Well, Mr. Chairman....
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Do you have any comment, Ms. Legault? You don't have to if you don't want to.
4:15 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The only thing I would say, Mr. Chair, is that in terms of how the act works, I respond to specific complaints about the disclosure of information in documents. I also have the power to initiate investigations, but the act states that I have to have reasonable grounds. Rumours would not be satisfactory, and I would not start an investigation based on rumours. I would base it on reasonable grounds, which would be based on a certain level of evidence.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
We could probably send you a copy of Mr. Savoie's book. Would that constitute evidence?
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I haven't read Mr. Savoie's book yet.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
In any event, on the level of complaints under access to information, the last report that I have, and this is an area where I do hear a lot of complaints from people.... They apply under access to information and it takes longer than ever to get it, in many cases. The last report I've seen from your office had 4,166 total complaints to investigate. Is that about where it's at?
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I have 2,100 complaints, give or take a few, at this point. So far this year, I've received about 1,100. It's high. I am concerned this year because it's still high. We're going back to levels of two years ago. Last year we had about 1,600, which means that it's difficult for us to manage our entire inventory. We reduced the inventory by 400 and some last year, but we're still at about 2,100.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
To your knowledge, are ministers' offices covered under access to information?
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The minister, or the head of any agency, is the person responsible under the legislation, and that authority is delegated within institutions.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
That's not the question. Sorry, if I could just repeat the question, are ministers' offices subject to access to information?
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
That's a good question, Mr. Chair. It is in part the subject of a case that's before the Supreme Court of Canada. We will have a decision hopefully some time in the next few months. The hearing was in September.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
For example, ministerial-exempt staff members, are their e-mails accessible under ATIP?
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In my view, they are.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
As I said, in my view, whatever is in the control of a federal institution is subject to the Access to Information Act. It would be a question as to whether or not what's in the minister's office or what's in a political staffer's notes would be covered by the Access to Information Act.
The Supreme Court of Canada case that we're now awaiting a decision on is about, you will recall, the agenda of the Prime Minister and some of the notes of political staffers in the Department of National Defence. We are awaiting a decision from the Supreme Court of Canada to clarify the law in this respect.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
