Evidence of meeting #4 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was complaints.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Suzanne Legault  Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

11:10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Order.

This is the fourth meeting of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Our order of the day, pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), is main estimates for 2010-11: vote 40 under Justice, referred to the committee on Wednesday, March 3, 2010.

Our witnesses today, from the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada, are Suzanne Legault, interim information commissioner, and Andrea Neill, assistant commissioner, complaints resolution and compliance.

Welcome to you.

I would like to very quickly deal with a housekeeping matter for the attention of members. Yesterday I spoke with the ethics commissioner, Mary Dawson. An unavoidable personal matter has come up, and she will be unable to be with us on Thursday, April 15. We had scheduled the report cards for Thursday, April 22, which were going to be presented by the information commissioner. As it turns out, they're going to be presented and available on April 13. So what I'm proposing, with the committee's concurrence, is that we simply flip the two meetings. We will have the report cards on April 15 instead of Mary Dawson for her estimates, and on April 22 Ms. Dawson will appear. We've already discussed it with the important people who are carrying the ball on the report cards, and it's a little tight, but they're ready.

Now, welcome to both of you. I understand you have some brief opening remarks. Please proceed.

11:10 a.m.

Suzanne Legault Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations on your re-election as chair of this committee. It is indeed a pleasure to appear before what you so aptly described as the best and hardest-working committee on Parliament Hill.

11:10 a.m.

Bloc

Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC

Who said that?

11:10 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

Today I will review some of this year's successes and highlight my priorities for the year ahead in light of the main estimates.

Three years ago, in response to considerable challenges in delivering on our mandate, former Commissioner Marleau initiated major structural and operational changes. The goal was to improve our core investigative function and ensure diligent stewardship of our operations, in order to deliver high quality services to Canadians. In so doing, Mr. Marleau laid down the foundations of our new business model, tailored to our current and unique challenges. After a little more than a year of implementation, ongoing monitoring and adjustments, I am proud to say that my Office is now breaking new ground in terms of operational and strategic efficiencies.

Since I started my term as interim commissioner, my priority has been to improve the efficiency of our investigative process. I have supported this effort with a strong integrated human resources strategy. Here are some of the early results. Whereas it took an average of 176 days to process administrative complaints, the average turnaround time since October of this past year is 107 days. I'm very confident that we will meet our objective next year to close 85% of our administrative complaints within a 90-day timeframe. We have also made a significant dent in our inventory of pre-April 2008 complaints. This inventory has been reduced from slightly under 1,600 in November 2008 to 388 as of last week.

However, Mr. Chairman, the most significant accomplishment this year is no doubt the number of cases completed, which stands at 2,062.

Since last summer, I have made full use of my investigative powers. I am making greater use of the formal reporting process under section 37 of the Act and recommending that heads of institutions disclose the additional information. This approach has proven very effective for the release of additional records to complainants. I have also used subpoenas and conducted examinations under oath in appropriate cases.

This success on the operational front has been accompanied by a number of precedent-setting cases.

Last summer my office sought and obtained leave to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada in the cases that are known as the "Prime Minister's agenda" cases. A hearing date is set for October 2010.

Last summer I also issued subpoenas to the CBC for the production of records. The institution is challenging my authority to review documents subject to the new exclusions under section 68.1 of the act, and this case is now before the Federal Court.

In the case of the National Gallery of Canada, I have, for the first time since the provision has come into effect in the act, referred a matter to the Attorney General of Canada in relation to the possible commission of an offence under section 67.1 of the act. This section provides for criminal sanctions for wilful destruction, falsification, or concealment of a record, or counselling any person to do so.

Achieving the benefits of the business model also required that I fully staff the investigator positions. We are ending the year, and starting the new one, with a full complement of investigators. In fact, Mr. Chairman, I'm actually overstaffed. Moreover, I have established a structured in-house training program to provide investigators with the extra skills and knowledge they need for optimal performance.

I have adopted an integrated approach to systemic issues through the three-year plan that I published last July.

My first step was to look into the pervasive problems of delays through this year's report cards process. This year we expanded our sample to 24 institutions, which represent 88% of all the access requests received by the federal institutions. This will provide a sound, fact-based assessment of the situation, and I hope it will provide the path to solutions.

I will be tabling the report in Parliament on April 13. I look forward to discussing it in more detail, not on April 22, as my speech states, but on April 15.

In terms of this year's Main Estimates, Mr. Chairman, our total planned spending is $12 million in 2010-2011, and our number of full-time employees is 106. As you will see in the documents I have provided, if temporary employees and consultants are included, we actually have a total of 123 employees. These numbers reflect additional funding obtained in 2009-2010.

Mr. Chairman, we are currently using every dollar appropriated to the Office. My budget is extremely stretched and we are operating at full capacity. The changes introduced in the Budget will place a heavy burden on my organization, since 70% of our budget is allocated to salaries, and an additional approximately 20% is allocated to the OIC's fixed operating costs.

This means we will have very difficult choices to make in the coming years, in order to keep within our appropriations, while still delivering on our mandate and maintaining excellence in corporate governance.

That said, we are developing significant efficiencies.

The intelligence and expertise gained during these past months allow us to be more strategic and proactive in the way we conduct our investigations. In particular, the in-depth knowledge of our complaints inventory, through its composition and evolution, enables us to devise new strategies to resolve complaints more quickly and efficiently.

We're also in a good position to proactively determine where we need to focus our investigative and training efforts.

As part of our three-year plan, in the next fiscal year I'm undertaking a systemic investigation into delays and time extensions. As I announced on March 2, and following recent events, I will expand the scope and focus of this systemic investigation to examine whether interference in the processing of access requests is a cause of delay or unduly restricts disclosure under the act. In parallel, my office will undertake a report cards assessment of new institutions that became subject to the act under the Federal Accountability Act.

To be strategic and proactive also implies making full use of new technologies to provide greater guidance and to serve as a model in providing access to information. Through our revamped website, we intend to substantially increase public disclosure of our own information. Our virtual reading room will give timely access to all OIC decisions and major corporate documents as well as list the access to information requests we have received and processed. In addition, we will develop more practice directions regarding our own interpretation of the act and our own investigative process.

Mr. Chairman, my approach as interim Commissioner is very simple. I intend to work diligently to fulfill my mandate by fully implementing the OIC's business model and maximizing efficiencies in our investigative process. To that end, I will use all the tools at my disposal under the current legislation, and I remain committed to working closely with parliamentarians, institutions and complainants.

In closing, Mr. Chairman, if you will allow me, I would like to take this opportunity to put on the public record before this committee my most sincere appreciation for the unwavering support and dedication of my staff at the OIC in this time of transition.

With this, Mr. Chairman, I thank you, and Assistant Commissioner Neill and myself are happy to answer your questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you very much.

I'm going to start with Ms. Foote, please.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

Good morning, and thank you for appearing before the committee. We appreciate having you here, obviously.

11:15 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

Good morning.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

I just want to touch on your interim appointment. This is your second interim appointment. Why is it, I wonder, that you've not been appointed in a full-time capacity or that you're not in a permanent position? Do you find at all that it's impacting on the job you're trying to do?

11:15 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

I really don't know why the position has not become permanent, why a process has not started. This is something that you would have to ask the government rather than me.

Has it impacted what I do and how I act? I would say no. I conduct myself within the full mandate. I have full delegated authority and I have conducted myself accordingly. I have a high standard of integrity and that's the way I'm doing my job.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

Do you have any idea when the position will be made permanent?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

I really don't know. My second interim term expires in June. I believe it's June 30.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

Thank you.

I'm just looking here at the increase in the number of complaints and the fact that so many positions within the department went unfilled for an extended period of time. I'm wondering why that was and how that impacted the work you're charged with doing.

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

I can speak for the situation now. If you look at your handouts, you actually have in there a little bar graph that shows the increase in human resources that we've had in the office. It actually looks like this one in your handout. You see in the past year, starting in April, we've basically gone from 93 people to 113. What I've done this year is I've basically been heavily supplemented using the operational budget with additional investigators and additional administrative staff in investigations. It is having a clear positive impact on the number of files that we can close. It's also presenting its own challenges, because we have to train all of these new people. So we're doing that at the same time.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

My question was, why would they have gone unfilled at a time when we saw an increase in the number of complaints?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

If I go back three years ago, we had a complement of about 57 to 60 people but we didn't have additional funding. We've had two Treasury Board submissions in the last three years; the full payment of these Treasury Board dollars basically came this year and we had additional moneys for next fiscal year. Basically what I've done this year is I've done anticipated staffing so we're starting the year already fully staffed based on the budget we're getting as of April 1.

As for the reasons why it wasn't staffed before, we did have a difficult time staffing people. We became more aggressive in the last year and Andrea--

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

You mean a difficult time in terms of finding people with the required qualifications?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

Appropriate skills. We expanded the way we were recruiting people. Instead of asking for people with specific access-to-information experience, we expanded with audit experience, investigative experience. So we had a broader pool. We had a university recruitment process as well, and we had deployments. We basically became more creative and more aggressive.

The other thing is this year.... When I arrived, clearly Assistant Commissioner Neill had to do a lot of staffing in a very short period of time.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

When you say you're now overstaffed, what do you mean by that?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

I have 106 full-time equivalents in my budget. I have seven people employed permanently who are pressures on my budget. In addition to that, I have 20 people who are consultants or temporary help who I budget for out of the operational budget.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

If you're budgeting for employees out of the operational budget, how is that impacting on the work you're trying to accomplish?

11:20 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

As I said, my priority this year is really investigations. We have a lot of cases in our inventory. We started the year at 2,500 cases and we're now at 2,100, which means we have made a dent. This is the most significant dent in the inventory of the OIC that's ever been made historically--about 400 in one year. That's the result of what I've done on overstaffing and the other work we've done on the investigative side. I felt it was necessary to allocate this operational money to additional resources to focus more on the investigations.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

Did something not get done as a result of you having to move money from one envelope to another?

11:25 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

There wasn't that much this year. We had very little money left at the end of this fiscal year. I think I'm now at $113,000 or so, which is 1% of our budget. That is very tight as far as government institutions go. We delayed some computer purchases and those kinds of things, but essentially we did everything we set out to do this year.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL

When you say your budget is extremely stretched, what would you consider to be an appropriate budget for your organization?

11:25 a.m.

Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada

Suzanne Legault

First I must clarify that the budget is tight because of the announcement in the federal budget that there will be a freeze in federal institutions' budgets. That means I will have to absorb the salary increases next year, and potentially the following years, within my existing budget. So this year, doing everything we've done, it's very tight. I'm basically having to delay stuff for next year. I know that next fiscal year, because I have to absorb the salary increases of most of my employees, I'll have a shortfall of $200,000. So already at the beginning the year I know I'm short $100,000, just by this simple calculation.

The other thing is that we are now doing a really detailed review of the business model. This year, to really fulfill the expectations of the business model, I've had to overstaff and bolster the number of people on the investigative side to make sure we achieve the results we want.