Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 9th, 2011

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

So you think it is directly related—

[Prashant Shukle]

That's our current thinking, yes.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I wonder if you could expand a little on the official languages policy and how it's affecting the work you're doing in putting this policy together.

[Corinne Charette]

Just to build on Mr. Shawcross's comments, Environment Canada has roughly 40 reusable data sets on a total inventory of 500 potential data sets. Making it available through his programming interface allows them to limit the translation and the metadata to a much smaller subset, which they reuse to all 500.

When we're making data available directly, one data set at a time in a downloadable format, then that particular data set has to have translated metadata. This means that somebody has to take 450 data sets and potentially say that this data set contains this in both languages, the originator is this in both languages, these are the key characteristics of the data in both languages, it will be refreshed on this periodic frequency in both languages, and so on.

While the vast body of data is numeric, which obviously does not require translation, the key preparatory work needs to be translated or it will be just a mishmash of numbers that no one can really use successfully, no matter how creative they are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Siksay.

Dr. Bennett, you have four minutes.

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Thanks very much.

I was a bit surprised to hear they're using a policy in terms of open government. We did hear hearsay evidence that federal officials, when at conferences, are only allowed to talk about open data and are not allowed to talk about open government, because of the lack of policy.

It's almost as if a voluntary activity that you're supposed to help with is happening in a number of departments. What would it look like if there really was an open government policy? What would be the plan? Would cabinet have to be involved in this? How would you be able to ensure the data sets were available for your portal in a timely fashion?

[Corinne Charette]

Policies are issued by Treasury Board ministers; our job as a secretariat is to study, provide advice, make recommendations, and so on. Clearly, if a policy is adopted, then we work with departments on how to comply with the policy. We enable them and we work with departments regularly on assessing compliance.

Our community of departments is very rigorous, and when Treasury Board issues policy instruments, they work very hard and comply. It's a question of time. We have to phase in policy instruments, and so on. I have no doubt that we would—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

So at the moment there's not a policy directive from Treasury Board to departments. People who are providing stuff to the potential portal are doing it in a voluntary way.

I had another question. Could you tell me why the website for access to information, where people could apply to access to information online, got taken down two years ago?

[Corinne Charette]

That wasn't a website to apply for access requests online, but a website that was summarizing a very small subset of access requests. Unfortunately, it was very outdated and it had only a very small subset. In fact, the data were collected in an inconsistent format and fashion, thereby making the information more misleading than valuable. That is why—

[Carolyn Bennett, Liberal, St. Paul's, ON]

Is there work being done to improve that, and is there work being done so that people could actually not have to put a cheque in the mail to get an access request?

[Corinne Charette]

We are currently assessing what can be done to foster greater ease of making an access request online and paying with a credit card. Some departments allow that today—not many, but some departments do allow you to make an access request online and pay by credit card. We are looking at making that broader and more accessible as Canadians are more at ease in dealing that way today than they were even five years ago. We are working in that regard to see what can be done and how we can enable departments to go that route.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

There is just one point I want to clarify, Madame Charette.

On the organizational chart, do you have organizational responsibility for the other departmental access to information offices, or do they answer to you? How does that work?

[Corinne Charette]

We are the policy centre for access to information. What that means is we issue policy instruments and best practices and guidelines. We work with the community on rolling these guidelines and best practices out, ensuring that they're able to support them. We support the community periodically.

We are tasked with producing the Info Source reports, one of the big components of which is the annual roll-up of access to information and privacy requests and so on. However, every department and agency has its specific access to information office and its designated head.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

We did get the last report card from the Information Commissioner. Of course, as you know, a number of departments are having real problems in dealing with this legislation. They got Fs. One department was so bad that it actually got off the radar screen, but you're saying it is really the responsibility of the deputy minister of that department to straighten those issues out, not your responsibility.

[Corinne Charette]

Absolutely. It is the deputy head of every department who is responsible for complying with the access to information policy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

That concludes the questioning.

The committee has another item we have to deal with, but before we suspend this part of the meeting, I'm going to first of all thank you very much for your appearance here today. Your testimony certainly was helpful to the committee.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Since we are talking about open government, I would like to move an impromptu motion calling on the President of the Treasury Board to meet with the committee to explain in greater detail his responsibility and the gist of the directives issued by his office to Ms. Charette.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You can do it, Madame Freeman. Would you not want to bring that up with the steering committee on Monday and go from there?

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Since we are here and we are dealing with this subject, it is time for us to meet with the minister responsible for Ms. Charette's operations. She is, after all, the link in the most important chain of open government data. She oversees these operations and so, I think we should invite the minister here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

No.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

It requires some political will, Mr. Murphy.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Okay, you're quite within your rights to make the notice, except that is a notice of motion, Madame Freeman. It's a simple motion, so we'll put it on the order paper, and once your 48 hours expire, it will come before the committee for it to be debated and voted upon by the committee.

Thank you very much. We appreciate all the testimony.

What I'm going to ask--

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

You're saying that 48 hours' notice is required? I am moving the motion as we speak. There is no 48 hours' notice. We should debate it immediately, in accordance with the rules verified with the clerk.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

We've accepted your notice of motion. You'll be given an opportunity to move the motion at the next meeting.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

This is not a notice of motion. I am moving a motion. There is no requirement to give 48 hours' notice when one moves a motion about a subject under discussion.

There is no requirement to give 48 hours' notice.