Information & Ethics Committee on March 21st, 2011

[Kasra Nejatian]

Like all Conservatives, I suppose, it is difficult to create government programs that have 18 steps that require 25 things to be done to reach out to x number of young Canadians. It's important for folks, like the members of the committee and the members of Parliament, to reach out more frequently to high schools by visiting them.

I remember when I was in high school, Mr. Godfrey was the member of Parliament for Don Valley West. He was a fantastic man. He used to come to our high school. He used to wear this beige suit. He would just sit down and chat with folks. I once had an hour-and-a-half or two-hour conversation with him after assembly. He was a Liberal and he knew I was a Conservative, but he sat down and chatted with me. I thought it was fantastic. He encouraged other folks to come out. I have a lot of time and a lot of admiration for Mr. Godfrey for doing that. I think more folks--

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.

We'll now go to Madame Thi Lac.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you very much for accepting to testify.

I will ask you to keep your answers short because I have several questions for you.

You were the president of the Ontario association and you said to the committee that you had done some recruiting. Did you do that using Conservative Party letterhead? Was there such a thing as Conservative Party letterhead?

[Kasra Nejatian]

I was the president of the Ontario PC Campus Association when I was 19. I no longer qualify because I'm no longer a university student.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

No, that was not my question. You had seen letterhead when you were campaigning for the Conservative Party. Is that right? Have you seen paper with your party's letterhead before, or were you unaware that there even was such a thing?

[Kasra Nejatian]

The only time I saw Conservative Party letterhead was when the party wrote to various members announcing various events.

I should point out that I was the president of the Ontario Progressive Conservative, not the federal.... I don't think the federal party has a campus wing.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

Did you see the letter after it was revised? After you gave it to your assistant, did you see the letter again before it was sent out?

[Kasra Nejatian]

I signed the letter, so I saw it. Yes, I saw the letter.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Once the Minister asked you to do this, at no point in time did you go see him to confirm or try to get his approval before sending the letter. Did the Minister not see the end product of the task he had assigned to you before you sent it out?

[Kasra Nejatian]

The minister, I believe, was in Pakistan when the letter went out. He didn't see the final letter, no.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

So he never saw the wording. I find that strange. You have apologized, but I think that it is rather the Minister who was sloppy, since he did not see the end result of the task he had given you, especially since you were still in training and on probation. I believe that the Minister made the mistake. When I give my employees a job to do—especially if they have been in the office for only a few weeks—it is normal to ask to see the letters before they are sent out, so that I can approve the end product, since the employees are still on probation. The Minister never asked to see the letter before you sent it out, correct?

[Kasra Nejatian]

Believe me, there is no one here who wishes more than I do that there had been a third, fourth, or fifth set of eyes on this letter. But no, he didn't ask to review it. I don't remember. You may want to ask him what his normal practice is. This was literally the first time I sent a letter out.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

When he instructed you to write the letter, he did not tell you not to use letterhead paper, office staff and your working time. He didn't make that clear when he asked you to draft this letter.

[Kasra Nejatian]

The minister asked me not to use governmental letterhead to send a letter out. I don't recall—

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I want to go over what Senator Champagne, a Conservative Senator, said about me at the beginning of 2011. She accused me of being disloyal to the country that has welcomed me and of trying to break it up, since I am a sovereignist. Does writing such a letter on behalf of the Department of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism not increase immigrants' feelings of insecurity? Could it not be interpreted as intimidation with regard to their political options?

Is a mixed message not being sent, between what the Senator said about me and a letter asking for support from ethnic communities written on the Department of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism letterhead paper?

[Kasra Nejatian]

I think I'm being asked to interpret a comment made by a senator. This is the first time I've met you. I wouldn't dare to suggest such a thing. I have no reason to doubt—

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Go ahead and finish off.

[Kasra Nejatian]

I was saying that I can't interpret the comments someone else made, especially when I haven't seen the comments. I apologize. I don't mean to be unhelpful, but I just don't know what to say.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Merci, Madam Thi Lac.

Mr. Abbott.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

My friends in the opposition seem to be hung up on so-called working hours. In other words, if things happen between nine and five, then everything is fine. But if I understand your testimony correctly, at 90 hours a week, you were working 14 hours a day, seven days a week, which seems unusual. But it's not unusual for a person as dedicated to democracy and this great country as you are.

In the 14 hours a day that you would be working, at 7 o'clock, 8 o'clock, 9 o'clock, or 10 o'clock at night, would you be doing work for which you were directly remunerated, work for the minister and for the ministry?

[Kasra Nejatian]

I should point out that it wasn't unusual for me to work that many hours. I regularly billed over 2,000 hours as a lawyer in New York. I've never really worked a job.... Before going to law school, I worked at a private equity portfolio company. It wasn't unusual for me to work those hours.

I think the Treasury Board guidelines required me to work 37.5 hours per week. I assure members of the committee that I worked significantly longer hours than those on departmental matters. I helped organize two diplomatic trips, one of which, I assure you, took more than 37.5 hours in the week that I helped organize it.

[Jim Abbott, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

My point is, for the benefit of the opposition, that in working 14 hours a day on average--and I'm totally prepared to believe your testimony that you were doing that--at some times after the so-called normal working hours of 9 to 5, you would be taking care of the 37.5-hour work week that the Treasury Board guidelines were giving you. In other words, whether you were doing the work explicitly for the Conservative Party between 9 and 10 a.m. was irrelevant to the fact that you were putting your 40 or 50 or 60 hours a week in to meet Treasury Board guidelines during that 90-hour week. That's the point I'm trying to make.

[Kasra Nejatian]

I regularly received briefing binders from the department that were as thick as a book. I frequently read them well after 7, 8, or 9 p.m. I couldn't tell you how often I worked past 9 p.m. reading departmental briefing materials.

I was very excited to get this job. I spent a great deal of time learning about the department and its operations. I assure the members of the committee that I don't think there was a single day when I didn't do departmental work past 5 p.m. I don't think there was a single weekend when I didn't do departmental work.

In my first week on the job, I worked on the annual report the department puts out, which required me to learn everything the department had done the previous year. I couldn't imagine doing that working 9 to 5. I couldn't imagine doing it working 9 to 7.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Do we have time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

You have one minute.