Evidence of meeting #51 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was conservative.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Nejatian, in your six weeks there, did you feel that Minister Kenney was somebody who had control of his office and that he was the guy who was in charge?
As an Individual
I think Mr. Kenney worked incredibly long hours. I speak as someone who's known him for some time. I think he has an incredible grasp of the files, and he gave office direction and oversight. I couldn't tell you if he knew what every single person was doing at any given time, but he works extremely long hours and he has a great grasp of the files, I can tell you that.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Abbott tried to leave the impression that the opposition is hung up on the hours of work. No, we're not--or at least I'm not. What I'm concerned about is the abuse of power, and the targeting of the ethnic community, and using ministerial resources and taxpayer dollars to do so. That's what I'm concerned about.
But let's sum up where we are so far. You admitted to using government letterhead, working on government time, using ministerial phones. There's more staff than you involved in this exercise of ministerial pressure for partisan purposes, and heaven only knows what departmental resources were used to develop this document we have here, which is also strictly for targeting the ethnic community.
But I would submit to you that.... You know, I have sympathy for you, because I think you're paying the price for having taken direction, either directly or indirectly, from a minister, but I thank you because this letter that you put out I think shows us the skulduggery that the Conservative Party of Canada is up to in abusing its power.
I have several questions for you. You mentioned that somebody hand-delivered this document and that letter to other offices. Do you know how many people from Minister Kenney's office were involved in that? Who were they?
As an Individual
Mr. Chair, I should point out that I'm happy to help out the Liberal Party of Canada whenever I can.
It is the two volunteer interns who delivered.... I don't think they sought help from anyone else.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay.
Did the minister's chief of staff see the letter? Do you know if the minister's chief of staff saw the letter?
As an Individual
I think the minister's chief of staff reviewed the text of the letter, but I don't think he actually saw it printed, no.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay.
Did the minister's director of communications see the letter or review it?
As an Individual
I certainly didn't show it to him. I don't know anyone else who did.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay.
Now, the document gets into some very what I would call “concerning” words in terms of the selection. The document itself contains data showing voting patterns among Chinese and South Asian communities. It highlights targeted ridings that are called “very ethnic”. That term used, “very ethnic”, is that a commonly used term around the minister's office, do you know?
As an Individual
I know that this has caused some concern with folks. I should point out that I added the words “very ethnic” to the presentation. The presentation only initially said I think “target ridings”. I certainly didn't mean any insult by it. I consider myself an ethnic Canadian. I think the term was meant to say that some ridings have a higher proportion of folks who are ethnic than others do and those target ridings were the ridings that had the highest proportion of ethnic votes. But if it wasn't on a PowerPoint presentation...if it was an essay, I would try to be more articulate.
I certainly apologize to folks who think that was meant to be--
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
That's fine. We understand that. As I indicated, I think you're ending up being the fall guy here to a certain extent. Although the government will try to say this was a dumb mistake, this was not a dumb mistake. It's much more than that. This goes to the heart of what this government is all about in terms of targeting an ethnic community. That's where it's at.
Media reports indicate that this package, this PowerPoint presentation, was presented to caucus. Do you know if it was?
As an Individual
I have never been to a.... That's actually not true; I have been to a caucus meeting, but it was in 2000. I haven't been to a caucus meeting since then. I can tell you that the caucus meeting at which the minister spoke about this was a meeting of the Alberta caucus on Tuesday, March 1. I don't think the presentation was even ready by then, so it could not have been presented.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay. The letter says, “...we require an additional $200,000 of financial commitment from various Conservative Electoral District Associations to make this campaign a success”. That means the advertising campaign to target ethnic or, as your document says, “very ethnic” communities. This is the letter to Alberta MPs. Is there a similar document and a similar letter--that you're aware of--targeting Ontario MPs' ridings or other areas across the country?
As an Individual
If I may, I'd like to say two things. The first is that I know these are things that folks have said, and I probably would have spun it the same way if I were in other folks' shoes. The PowerPoint presentation doesn't call any communities very ethnic. It calls ridings very ethnic. I've worked on anti-racism causes since I was in high school. I did not intend to cause offence to folks, and I'm deeply apologetic if I have.
As an Individual
I'm not aware of any other letters having gone out to seek funds for this campaign to other members of Parliament. I'm simply not aware of them.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Mr. Easter.
Mr. Albrecht, you have five minutes.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, up until about five minutes ago, I was feeling quite calm. But when Mr. Easter accuses anyone of skullduggery....
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
And a couple of minutes ago he refused to allow information like we have here, with clear Liberal Party advertising, requesting members to buy memberships in a member's riding office. At that point, Mr. Easter, through you, Mr. Chair, I find that unacceptable.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
On a point of order, that's already been ruled out of order. What we're talking about here is ministerial responsibility, not some backbencher in an opposition party. This is a serious issue that goes to the heart of government and democracy.
Conservative
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Mr. Nejatian, earlier tonight you indicated that you had received adequate training, and I take your word for that.
When we came here as MPs, I think all of us received orientation sessions, very information-intensive sessions.
It would be nice if Mr. Easter would listen for just a few minutes, Mr. Chair.
They were information-intensive sessions where we were overloaded with information. We could call that adequate training. But I know as an MP that the first six weeks were intimidating, and I'm sure I made my share of mistakes. I challenge MPs around this table to say they didn't make a few mistakes in those first six weeks. Even staff who are hired in those first six weeks, many of them are new to the Hill. If we want to point fingers, there's enough blame to go around this table, Mr. Chair. I just think we should be aware of that.
I want to return just briefly to a question Mr. Poilievre raised earlier about the CBC's The National reporting that you, Mr. Nejatian, sold your effects and were moving to Iran, specifically saying you advertised your effects and were moving overseas. You advertised these on Kijiji and sold your desk for $1,400. You indicated earlier that was not true. So here we have a completely inaccurate and misleading statement with no basis in facts at all. But earlier today, Mr. Chair, we heard the CEO of CBC say this:
When others use that information to distort or misrepresent the facts about the public broadcaster, we will speak out.
Fair enough. You, though, as an ordinary citizen have no recourse to set the record straight on so-called facts that were presented by a CBC reporter. So doesn't it seem to you that there are two sets of criteria in terms of misrepresenting facts or getting facts straight and then taking accountability for it: one for media reporters, one for ordinary citizens?