Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was institutions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Under Standing Order 18, I refer to O'Brien and Bosc, chapter 13, starting on page 614:
Remarks directed specifically at another Member which question that Member's integrity, honesty or character are not in order. A Member will be requested to withdraw offensive remarks, allegations, or accusations of impropriety directed towards another Member.
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Standing Order 18 has actually been in place since the beginning of our country, and the wording is somewhat archaic, but the member is quite right--
12:25 p.m.
Conservative
12:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
The member is quite right and I think we all want to be careful about how we characterize others. But I must admit, the rule is not enforced in the chamber. That doesn't give me the right, though, to....
Mr. Easter, I think we have to refrain from characterizing or speaking ill will against any member of the place. Let's move on.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
If it's a serious concern, Mr. Chair, I'll withdraw.
On page 58 in your report, you say, “The OIC is concerned that” the Privy Council Office's “access to information delegation order accords more power to senior management...”. Then you go on to say, “The delegation order was updated in June 2008, but does not concentrate authority with the director of PCO-ATIP, as officials said it would” during previous House of Commons testimony.
Is PCO giving you any reasons why they're not moving in that direction and updating the delegation order?
12:30 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
It essentially is related to the expertise that the institution believes rests with senior officials. That's why also at Public Safety they have decided to exercise their delegation of authority that way. There is nothing in the law or in Treasury Board mandatory policy that says delegations of authority have to be done in one specific way.
The OIC always strongly recommends...and our experience shows that departments that do best are the ones where the coordinator has full delegated authority and makes the decisions for disclosure.
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
That we can add to the evidence, that comment that it makes sense to go that way. You recommend that.... I guess going back to Guy Giorno when he was here, he recommended that ministers' offices follow the delegated authority order to eliminate inappropriate levels of approval.
Do you have any evidence to date...? I know that your strategic review is going to take some time, but do you have any evidence to date, other than what is in the public domain, of where there may be inappropriate levels of approval?
12:30 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Inappropriate levels of approval would be if that results in additional delays or a whether it results in a reduction in the amount of disclosure that should be disclosed under the legislation. These would be, in my view, inappropriate approval levels.
What I have found in the report cards is that I have concerns, because in some institutions the delegation of authority is either widely spread across the organization or has several vertical layers, which could cause delays. This is what I need to investigate further to confirm whether this is inappropriate or whether the way that institutions have organized themselves suits their needs and does not result in any kind of reduction or negative impact on requesters' rights.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the commissioner for her report and for the time she is giving to the committee today.
I want to go back to some of the discussion we've had about this delegation of authority. You've already said that under the act there is no ability to provide that authority to a political staffer, so I'm assuming, then, that all of the delegations of authority right now are being given to officials within the departments.
12:30 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
You said that CFIA, the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, as an example, was having some difficulties and the president of CFIA was approving all of the final releases of information. As president of CFIA, he is an official of the department.
12:30 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Of course. The president was a she at the time, yes, she was a senior official, of course.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Now you're saying that Treasury Board is working on the adapting of best practices for the delegation of authority and for how we streamline the system so that we can meet the timelines, which you believe need to be improved upon. Did you say there have been some changes made already at CFIA that will start to address some of this?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes. During the report cards process, the president agreed that it was best if the delegation of authority was put further down into the organization.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Okay.
Now, you're currently evaluating, on an ongoing basis, about 24 agencies so far?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
A few years ago, when our side of the House was in opposition, we asked for the expansion of access to information to other crown corporations. It was voted against by the Liberal government at that time. Would you have the resources and ability if we did expand access to information so that all crown corporations were subject to the act?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Mr. Chairman, I'm not sure how many more that would be. We would have to see.
In 2006 the Federal Accountability Act added 69 institutions. We had a big jump in complaints the first year, with in excess of 500. In the second year there were a little over 200. But things seem to be tempering down this year to more normal levels in terms of complaints.
We would have to see, Mr. Chairman. In 2007-08 we came before the panel to request additional funding because of the additional institutions. That seems to be working fine.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
One of the statistics we've looked at here is that the number of requests that are getting processed annually by the government has increased substantially--by almost a third. Is there any logic for or reason why we are seeing such an increase in ATI requests?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
As I said, Mr. Chairman, there has been such a constant increase. Every year it increases by about 5% or 6%. It has been very regular in terms of an incremental increase every year. There hasn't been any specific spike that I can see from the statistics. Maybe just.... People are becoming more aware of the legislation, perhaps. I really do not have any kind of analysis of that, Mr. Chairman. Maybe the secretariat would.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
Is there any specific department that has experienced a greater increase versus others?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Well, definitely after it became subject to the Access to Information Act, the CBC received a significant amount of complaints. I don't exactly know their level of requests, but in the first year I think it was 536, and in the second year it was 221. I stand to be corrected.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
James Bezan Conservative Selkirk—Interlake, MB
How much time...? I have one minute left, Mr. Chair?
Madam Commissioner, you said that you've already met with Minister Cannon and have talked about improvements over at Foreign Affairs, and that you're happy with the way those discussions were taking place and with their evaluation of their process.
You mentioned Treasury Board, of course, coming out with their best practices for delegation of authority in ATI. Have you met with the Treasury Board president to talk about that process, as well as the Clerk of the Privy Council to see how they coordinate this overall?
12:35 p.m.
Interim Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have met with the Clerk of the Privy Council. I've met with thePresident of the Treasury Board. I've met with Mr. Cannon, as well as with senior officials from all of these agencies and departments. I have not met with all of the institutions' representatives that are covered by the report card, but I will definitely do so.
My goal, as I said before, is really to improve the access to information system. My focus will be to work very hard with the certain institutions that need improvement and to follow closely the ones that are showing some strong indication that they will do better. CSIS is one of them. I think the next time it will do really well. There is National Defence. I'm still very hopeful about National Defence. We have met with them. It's all about deciding that there are things to fix and making the commitment to fix them.