Evidence of meeting #9 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
He just sent me a letter.
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, he was telling me about something.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I guess I'm still confused—not with respect to the act.
The PM sent you a letter that you testified contained no allegations, and there was no request for you to start an investigation. Was it a blank piece of letterhead? I don't mean to be facetious, but what would be the purpose of a letter that you said had no allegations and didn't even contain a request to initiate an investigation?
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It referred me to other people who would have information for me.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Were you at all intrigued by the fact that there were no allegations, no request, but he removed a minister and kicked her out of caucus? Does it not seem a little odd that there are no allegations, there's no request, but then there's this action that's been taken by the Prime Minister himself?
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't know the reasons. I didn't know any reasons at that point. I was told that if I contacted somebody, they might tell me some information that I should take into account.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
So it could have been an anonymous letter. It didn't have to be the Prime Minister.
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, it could have been anybody.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
At the time that you received this letter, were you aware that this matter had also been referred concurrently to the RCMP?
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, I believe I was aware of that.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Did the letter indicate that this matter had been referred to the RCMP?
12:15 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Do you know, I can't remember. But it certainly was all over the press that it had gone to both me and the RCMP. It may well have done so.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Okay.
With respect to gathering evidence, what I'm gathering is that you rely quite heavily upon press reports that may or may not be accurate.
12:20 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Well, I was aware of the press reports. I read the paper sometimes, but—
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
But at the time you got the letter, did the Prime Minister indicate that the RCMP was going to be notified about this matter?
12:20 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I can't remember, but that was probably the case. I can look at the letter. I can't remember; it may well have done so. But certainly there were press reports that it had been referred to both of us.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
Okay.
I understand that your office, once the RCMP.... I just want to get this straight. If the RCMP is notified at the same time you are, does that preclude your starting your own investigation, based on the fact that you both get the same letter?
12:20 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. There's a provision in the code or act—both—that says that if an investigation is commenced under an act or a criminal investigation, I have to discontinue anything I'm doing.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Michelle Simson Liberal Scarborough Southwest, ON
I understand that, but there may or may not have been enough.... And based on the fact there were no allegations, nothing, I would argue that there was no police investigation. Would that preclude you, just by virtue of the fact that they were notified?
12:20 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
12:20 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. I might hesitate a little bit to see whether an investigation was about to start under the RCMP, but it wouldn't preclude my starting something.
