Evidence of meeting #9 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I have to discontinue anything I'm doing when there's an investigation going on by the RCMP.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay.
I need some clarification on this, because the act says “The Commissioner shall immediately suspend an examination under”, and it gives paragraphs (a) and (b), and goes on. It says you suspend if there is a charge laid by the RCMP. You can continue unless there is a charge laid by the RCMP.
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It says “The Commissioner shall immediately suspend an examination under section 43, 44 or 45”. That's all of them.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Paragraph 49(1)(b) says if it is discovered that the subject-matter of the examination is also the subject-matter of an investigation “to determine whether an offence referred to in paragraph (a)”—which is one that is under an act of Parliament—“ has been committed or that a charge has been laid in respect of that subject-matter”.
Yes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Not to my knowledge.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Not to your knowledge.
So why, then, are you not continuing your investigation?
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I haven't the reasonable grounds.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay, and we've already had that discussion of what constitutes reasonable grounds.
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay.
Given that there is so much in the media about this issue, and in other locations as well, is that not enough for you to initiate an investigation?
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I don't think my office is responsible to do witch hunts. I mean, no, I don't have information.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay, I guess we're not suggesting that it's in any way, shape, or form a witch hunt. The reality is that the Prime Minister and ministers of the crown have said there are allegations; and given that there are allegations that suggest there's something terribly wrong here, if it meant the Prime Minister would remove a minister from the cabinet and from caucus, I think that's more than a witch hunt.
So my question is, is that not enough for you to self-initiate an investigation?
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Well, there are two things here. First of all, I have to know that whatever these allegations are, they are allegations that relate to the matters I'm responsible for administering under the code or the act. So I have to find out what they are in order to figure out, under my act or my code, whether I have jurisdiction to deal with them.
I forget the second point, but basically—
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
How do you go about finding that out, if you're not conducting an investigation?
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Oh, yes, that's the second point. If there are suggestions that there are problems, I'll do everything I can to figure out what those problems might be, but I can't manufacture them out of thin air.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
Okay, and are you doing that now? Because there are suggestions that there are problems.
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes. Any information we get, we continue to monitor, however we get it.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Foote Liberal Random—Burin—St. George's, NL
You said there were a couple of names in the letter that came to you from the PMO, not necessarily from the Prime Minister. Who was the other person?
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It was the Conservative Party's lawyer, Mr. Hamilton; and the other person was Mr. Snowdy.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
12:45 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
My office did.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
That's it, sorry.
Mrs. Block, please, for the final question.
We are going to be completing the meeting by one o'clock. There are other commitments for the members.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Dawson, can you tell me, is it up to the requester to identify whether they are appealing to or making a request under the act or the code, or do you make that determination?