Right.
Well, we've had examples, because again, there are lobbyists and now we have consultants: people who know everybody on the inside and who can open doors by making a phone call. That might not be considered lobbying by some, but certainly it would be very effective if you wanted to get to the people in the know.
I'm thinking of Bruce Carson, for example. It's a notorious case. This guy was a convicted felon; he was the Prime Minister's senior adviser. He knew the Lobbying Act; he'd written briefs on the Lobbying Act. He felt he wasn't subject to the Lobbying Act and yet he was setting up meetings with John Duncan. He was going to set up meetings with Peter Kent.
He seemed to feel that he was exempt from the Lobbying Act because of the loopholes. Yet certainly, being an insider, his being able to open doors is a heck of a lot different from the person who.... What is the threshold limit? Is it 20% of your time? He might have been spending 5% of his time lobbying, but it would have been highly effective. How do we constrain guys like this? What steps are needed to make sure that just because you know somebody in the PMO you can't be opening doors for businesses?