Information & Ethics Committee on April 24th, 2012

[Adam Carroll]

I thank you for that pep talk. The truth is that I did lose my job. Brad Butt saw to that. I was unemployed for a number of months. I was fortunate enough to get a new job with the leader's office.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

You were fortunate enough to get a new job, based on work, I am sure, that you had done in the past and what people understood you were capable of doing. I assume you worked with people. You worked as a resources individual providing resources to caucus.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Andrews, on a point of order.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

If Mr. Del Mastro would like to be on the hiring committee for the Liberal Party, I'm sure I could ask if they would like his advice on how we hire people. I don't think there's any relevance at all in what Mr. Del Mastro is asking. Could we please keep this relevant to why the individual is here today.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you for the point of order.

Clearly, I remind committee members once again to stick to the topic, even though I gave Mr. Andrews some latitude at the outset with some questions to Mr. Carroll that were very personal in nature. I would ask you once again to stick specifically to what happened with Vikileaks rather than to Liberal Party processes in general.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

No. What I'm getting at here, Mr. Chairman, with due respect to Mr. Andrews, is that I think the Liberal Party could use some advice on some of its more recent hires, its selection of its past leader who has made some rather ridiculous comments this week. I think they could use some advice. I would be happy to advise them on that.

Of course, the point is—

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Andrews, on a point of order.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

I'd like to know if Mr. Del Mastro has a file on our past leader in his office.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

That has no connection with today's topic. I would remind Mr. Andrews as well to stick to the topic of Vikileaks.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not. I wouldn't want a file on their former leader in my office. It might be contagious.

The point here, Mr. Carroll, is that I think you have been a good soldier. I think you have taken a bullet. I think you are prepared to accept all of this. I don't know what you may have been promised for accepting all of this. You have been thrown under the bus and dragged through the mud. It's clear that someone in your position could not have undertaken all of these things on his own. You didn't have the files. You have indicated these weren't your files that you used; somebody provided them to you. Mr. Calkins has correctly pointed out that this was retweeted by someone with significant followers on Twitter, someone who could push it out. That took some organization. It is very clear that in your position, you were put into a position of trust and provided files with that you acted upon to push out information on the Minister of Public Safety, who, quite frankly, I think you would have to acknowledge was bringing forward a bill that was in the public interest, a bill that the Liberal Party sought to bring in. It is a bill that Marlene Jennings sought to bring in twice.

This was nothing but a partisan activity with coordination from the Liberal leader's office. I believe you have taken a bullet for the team.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Del Mastro, your time was up 30 seconds ago.

I will give Mr. Carroll a few seconds so that he can answer the question.

[Adam Carroll]

I disagree with everything that Mr. Del Mastro said. To use his words, they are baseless smears, or to use the acronym, BS.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you.

Mr. Angus is next on the list. You have five minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

We see how this started out on a low point and has deteriorated. My poor friend Mr. Del Mastro's penchant for conspiracy theories has turned this committee to ridicule time and time again. I understand it, because there's a man who on the daily news has to defend widespread voter fraud as being something that hey, never happened on their watch. I'm sure it's difficult for him to go home and explain to people why the Conservative Party is being investigated for widespread voter fraud. We have Christian Paradis not once, not twice, but now three times being investigated for ethical violations. We have Bev Oda and her thousand dollar limo ride—

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

To be fair to everyone, Mr. Angus, I remind you as well to stick to the topic of Vikileaks.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Exactly, Mr. Chair.

The question that is paramount here is that this is a party whose members, throughout their deteriorating set of questions, are attempting to throw as much muck as possible to divert attention from the widespread corruption that is happening in their ranks and the misbehaviour of their ministers.

I would just like to reiterate the following for the record. We asked if you received support. You said no. Did you work alone? You said yes. Did you break any laws? You said no. Did you attempt to implicate the NDP? You said no. We don't tend to believe. We believe that we were dragged into this—but hey, that's for the record.

Mr. Dreeshen said that you are getting support from us today. Mr. Carroll, we told you that we didn't think you deserved to be here, that it wasn't an issue for our committee. We've asked you the questions. Do you believe that we are here to support you in any way, or are we here to just ask the questions? What is your opinion of our line of questioning?

[Adam Carroll]

I think your line of questioning has been fair and to the point. I don't see any suggestion of what Mr. Dreeshen indicated.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I want to go back to the question of the Conservatives seeming to believe that there's something unsavoury. I find it unsavoury, people's personal lives being dragged into politics.

I personally disagree with you, Mr. Carroll. I think people's personal lives need to be set aside somewhat, unless there's something extremely egregious. However, you had access to these documents. You released these documents. These documents are accurate. Correct?

[Adam Carroll]

Correct.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

So why in God's name is our committee investigating Minister Toews' unsavoury divorce? Does it have anything to do with the work of this committee? You've been on the Hill, and so do you believe that we need to know any more about Mr. Toews and whom he was sleeping with? Does that have anything to do with the work of this committee or do you believe this is just a sideshow?

[Adam Carroll]

Thank you very much for your question.

I've also been wondering about that same question. Why are we here? What are we doing here? We're not even in the right place. We're not even talking about something that is with respect to any laws or legislation.

No. I agree with what you said earlier: I think this is a sideshow; this is a distraction. The circumstances and events came out right when their robocall scandal was just beginning to break, and this seemed like a very convenient way to turn the “channel”, as it's called.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I want to finish off because I think we should be close to putting an end to this affair.

Mr. Del Mastro believes that Bill C-30 is in the public interest, a bill that would allow the minister widespread discretion to spy on the activities of ordinary citizens without any real, clear indication that this is justifiable. There is widespread opposition to it across Canada, particularly in western Canada.

Given this minister's disregard and his attacks on average Canadians in calling them child pornographers if they speak up for the issue of privacy rights, do you believe that we as Canadians do need to stand up to this government on Bill C-30?

[Adam Carroll]

I wouldn't have done what I did if I didn't fully agree and support that position. Bill C-30 will eliminate the need for judicial oversight of searches and “fishing expeditions”, as they're called. I don't believe that's right, and I believe we have to protect our privacy, and that was what I was trying to do.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Angus, your time is up.

We have 10 minutes left, enough for two five-minute turns around the table. You have the floor, Mr. Mayes.