Evidence of meeting #78 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mary Dawson  Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Lyne Robinson-Dalpé  Assistant Commissioner, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Denise Benoit  Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

3:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Order, please.

I call to order the 78th hearing of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. We are continuing our study of the votes in the main estimates.

Today we welcome the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Ms. Mary Dawson. I call vote 15 under Parliament.

Ms. Dawson will have 10 minutes to make her presentation. She is accompanied by Ms. Robinson-Dalpé and by Ms. Benoit. Afterwards, the members will have about an hour to ask questions.

Without further ado, Ms. Dawson, I give you the floor for this study of the main estimates. You have 10 minutes.

3:30 p.m.

Mary Dawson Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mr. Chair, thank you for inviting me to appear before you today as the committee considers my office's budgetary submission for the 2012-2013 main estimates. As you said, with me this afternoon are Lyne Robinson-Dalpé, Assistant Commissioner for Advisory and Compliance, and Denise Benoit, Director of Corporate Management.

To provide some context for my remarks, I will begin by reviewing briefly the organization and operations of my office. Then, I will outline our budgetary requirements for the current fiscal year and discuss any relevant considerations.

To fulfill my mandate as effectively and efficiently as possible I've organized my office into five divisions. We're fully staffed and maintain a stable staff complement of 50 employees. Advisory and compliance is the largest division, accounting for about one-third of my staff. This group provides confidential advice to public office holders and members of the House of Commons about their obligations under the Conflict of Interest Act and the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons. It reviews their confidential reports of assets, liabilities, and activities; maintains internal records of this information; and administers a system of public disclosure.

Our primary goal is to help public office holders and members meet their obligations under the act and the code through education and guidance. Our advisory and compliance services are complemented by a range of education and outreach activities coordinated by our policy, research, and communications division. It also contributes to policy development, compiles research, conducts public communication and media relations, and coordinates our dealings with Parliament.

While the major focus of my office is on prevention, we also investigate possible contraventions of the act and the code. Our reports and investigations division leads our investigations and coordinates the preparation of our annual reports. Legal services also plays a critical role in our investigations and provides strategic legal advice on all facets of our work.

Our corporate management division oversees the development and implementation of all internal management policies and the delivery of services and advice on human resources, finance, information technology, information management, and the management of office facilities, including security. It also administers our shared services agreements with the House of Commons and the Library of Parliament in the areas of information technology, security, and financial services, and with Public Works and Government Services for compensation services.

Finally, my own team within the commissioner's office provides general administrative and logistical support for the office. For the past five years I've maintained the same operating budget of $7.1 million. My budgetary requirements for 2013-14, which I will review with you in a moment, are sufficient to discharge my mandate in its current form. I know, however, that both the Conflict of Interest Act and the conflict of interest code for members are under review. Any resulting changes could have resource implications for my office. We would have to review any amendments to access what, if any, resource adjustments they might entail. Most of the recommendations that I've made are resource neutral and the ones that are not are unlikely to have a major impact on our resource requirements.

This year, in keeping with the current climate of fiscal restraint, we are proactively offering a reduction to our operating budget. I expect my office to be able to fund its operations with a reduced budget of $7.035 million in 2013-14. In 2012-13 we conducted a spending review that identified opportunities for efficiencies. These include using e-mail rather than letter mail to communicate with some of our many stakeholders, and restructuring the delivery of some of our internal functions. We also reduced the amount set aside as a reserve to cover unexpected situations. As a result, I was able to reduce the non-salary portion of my 2013-14 budget by $190,000, which is equivalent to 3% of the 2012-13 total budget.

This reduction, however, is partially offset by a requested increase in our salary envelope of approximately $90,000 to cover the economic increases that came into effect in 2013-14. The economic increases are in line with the results of collective bargaining in Parliament and the public service.

I note that in the fiscal year just ended we absorbed within our existing salary budget the payment of severance allowances for some employees. This is the reason for the overspending in last year's salary budget. This was absorbed through the conversion of non-salary funds rather than by requesting additional funds.

We remain cognizant of the ongoing need for budgetary restraint and for good financial management and internal controls. We regularly and carefully monitor our spending and ensure that our financial practices adhere to standard government practices. We have, for example, documented our internal financial management processes, identified potential risks, and ensured that internal controls to address those risks are in place. Although we have no legal obligation to do so, we follow the practice of proactive disclosure and publish reports of spending on travel and hospitality on our website.

I'm also pleased to report that for the second year the annual financial statements for my office were audited independently, and we again received a positive opinion. We continue to follow good management practices in other areas of our operations as well. Priorities for my office are identified each fall at a strategic planning session of senior management and refined through the fiscal year as appropriate. My office has a strong policy framework in the area of human resources that in 2012-13 enabled us to put in place policies and guidelines on specific issues. For example, this year we instituted a guideline on job shadowing to support and encourage the career development of our employees as well as a policy on workforce adjustment that is similar to policies in Parliament and the public service.

The policy on workforce force adjustment was not developed because of any current plan to downsize, but rather proactively to put in place appropriate mechanisms should we be faced with such a situation in the future.

Other policies and guidelines under development address such topics as occupational health and safety, and disability and duty to accommodate. We have also updated our terms and conditions of employment to reflect similar changes made to leave provisions and severance pay in Parliament and the public service. Although there are strong indicators that the office is a healthy workplace, including the now stable staffing levels and very low turnover, we've contracted with an independent third party to conduct an employee satisfaction survey later this spring. We're developing a performance measurement strategy to demonstrate the effectiveness of my office in fulfilling its mandate.

In the area of technology, we have invested in a new application to manage the content of our website because the current application has reached its full capacity. We expect to deploy it in the near future. This improvement follows the launch in April 2012 of a new integrated case management system.

I also regularly share best practices and exchange information with my provincial and territorial counterparts. This will be a particular focus of our activities in September when I host the next annual meeting of the Canadian Conflict of Interest Network here in Ottawa.

Detailed financial and other information is available on my office's website and in my annual reports.

Again, I thank the committee for inviting me to discuss the main estimates today. I look forward to answering your questions.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you very much for your statement, Ms. Dawson .

We will now have our seven-minute question round.

Mr. Angus, you have the floor.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Thank you, Madam Commissioner, for coming. We certainly appreciate meeting with you as we often have been doing recently, and I thank you for the layout of your report. It's very helpful for us. I have a couple of questions about your budget and your mandate.

I notice that you say your budget is sufficient to deal with the issues in the current form but it may change if there are other issues that are added to your mandate. As you know, there have been a number of recommendations brought forward by all manner of civil society and interested stakeholders on the Conflict of Interest Act.

Have you looked at the possibility of impacts from some of those recommendations on your service?

3:40 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

So far we've really just gone through our own recommendations to see what the impact would be. Who knows which ones will get accepted? There have been quite a few of them so we haven't done that second exercise yet.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Some of the recommendations that were made had to do with outreach and education, and as well there was a suggestion of meeting individually with all members to make them aware of their obligations, as a preventative measure. That is done in some of the provincial jurisdictions, I understand, where they deal with probably less numbers than we do with the federal civil service. Under the members, we have 308 members. We have ministerial staff. We have all designated public office holders.

Do you have a sense of what that would mean if you were to take on personally meeting with all the key public office holders including members?

3:40 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

I personally couldn't meet with all of them because there are 3,000 public office holders and 308 members.

We have that similar recommendation in our own recommendations, but it's perhaps a little milder. We've suggested that there be a meeting of some sort, either in a group situation or a one-on-one, depending on the circumstances.

It is one of the ones that we identified that would probably increase our workload somewhat, but we do at the present time spend a lot of time dealing with individual members and public office holders. I don't think it's an enormous difference, but it depends on how we structure it.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

You produce three annual reports: on the sponsored travel by members, on the MPs code, and then on the administration of the conflict of interest. You also have education and legal work, in terms of people who breach the code.

If, for example, the meeting were to include the 308 members, would you see that in the long term that would give you less work because it may head off problems? Have you done any sort of cost benefit analysis on that?

3:40 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

In terms of sponsored travel, I'm not sure there'd be much of a change, the rules are pretty light. You can do it and report it. Mind you, we're talking about the code here with your question of 308 MPs.... We're on the estimates meeting.

Certainly, I think meeting with the members would be manageable because there are 308. We could meet with them individually. I think Lyne and I already meet with quite a number of them.

3:40 p.m.

Lyne Robinson-Dalpé Assistant Commissioner, Advisory and Compliance, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

The way it works now is that one of our staff automatically meets, or calls, individual public office holders and members of Parliament. There is no requirement for a one-on-one meeting, but there is a verbal briefing with each individual, including MPs. If MPs request a one-on-one meeting, we do accommodate that.

Unfortunately, the commissioner is not always available for those meetings, but advisers are assigned specific MPs and they are assigned to meet with those MPs on a regular basis at their request.

3:40 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

If I may point out, if any MP requested to meet with me, I certainly am available to do so.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

The framework is roughly in place. It hasn't been clearly codified about a mandatory meeting, but it's the ability to address that, at least in terms of the members of the House of Commons.

3:40 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

We're not too concerned about that.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

We are coming up to the end of the review of the Conflict of Interest Act. As you know, you've brought a number of recommendations and many groups have brought recommendations. Some are complementary; some are contradictory.

Is there anything you want to put on the record now, before we begin our final deliberations of that act, that you think we should be aware of or maybe hasn't been addressed?

3:45 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

None come to the top of my mind. When I appeared the second time, I did refer to a couple of the proposals that people had made and I think I hit the main ones.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Your office doesn't negotiate with the Treasury Board Secretariat, you set out what you determine you need. Are you informed in advance that there is going to be a cut in budget, or if it's going to be stable? If you determine that you need more, how does that work with the Treasury Board, if they're setting guidelines for 3% or 5% cuts?

3:45 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

Our responsibility is to submit our estimates to the Speaker, because we are part of Parliament. We are different from the other agents of Parliament with whom you've met. The Speaker then forwards our estimates to Treasury Board, and to date, we've never had anything kept back.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Are you satisfied with the present set of arrangements, that it works? It goes through the Speaker, then over to Treasury Board, and you haven't had any.... I'm looking at your budgets and they seem to be fairly stagnant. Is that because the numbers you're getting are okay and you're not looking for better office furniture?

3:45 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

No.

We started off not spending all of our budget when the office was set up, but then as we got our investigation process in place, and started staffing, and as we got to year four or five, we were much closer to spending our budget. We have not found, to date, a problem within our budget.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

How many investigations did you do last year? Is it up? What's the number that you would do in an average year?

3:45 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

I think we did about seven. I always have these figures in my head and then I forget them.

I think we issued five reports in the last year. We usually have a larger number of cases that are not formal examinations, or inquiries, as they're formally called, because we receive a lot of information from people, the public, and members. The larger numbers are the ones that aren't informal examinations or inquiries, but then some of those become formal inquiry examinations.

I was looking at the figures earlier today and we get about 33 new files a year and we close about the same number a year.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

I now yield the floor to Mr. Mayes, for seven minutes.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to talk a little bit about corporate management, just because that's the background that I come from.

Have you had trouble, has your office had trouble, with recruiting and retaining employees this past year? What is the rate of turnover, and how many employees do you have?

3:45 p.m.

Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner

Mary Dawson

We're doing really well. We've had, I think, only one retirement, and nobody's quit, so we haven't had to do any staffing as such.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC

What is the number of staff that you have?