Evidence of meeting #78 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think 49 is our complement.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
One of the things that came up last year that concerned me when we discussed the estimates was the fact that you had two people on staff in the human resource department. It interested me that you had two people, because at that time you made the statement that you had your full complement of staff and you didn't think you'd have to do any recruiting.
Do you still have two people on your human resources, and if so, why?
Then, I'd like to know if it's a civil service contract that you would pay severance on. How long have those people worked in the office when you...? Well, you had only one retirement, so you didn't have anybody, but you talked about severance.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, but there's a continuity between our office and if they've been in the public service before or something, so there could be a significant severance package involved there, which I think was the case of the one who retired.
On your other question, though—and I'm going to turn this over to Denise—we took note of the comments that were made last year about our corporate area. There are several people who are on different kinds of leave at the moment, and we'll take a good look at just how we reconfigure in the long run.
Denise, why don't you take it from there?
Denise Benoit Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Exactly. Although we do have two positions in HR, one of them is vacant right now. One person is on an extended leave without pay, and we haven't replaced her. That was duly noted. When one of those two positions becomes vacant permanently, at that point there will be a decision. Because you're right, as long as there are a number of staffing actions under way.... The other person mostly works on policies and systems, but at one point we'll have to make that judgment call as to whether or not two full-time resources are required for HR.
On the severance allowance element, as part of collective bargaining in the public service the accumulation of severance allowances was cancelled. What happens is you liquidate whatever severance they had accumulated, and that's what we've done. In disbursements this year, it was close to $350,000 of severance allowances that were paid to employees, but now they don't accumulate anymore.
So that's what it is, and we shouldn't see any more of those payments in the future.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
I just want to make sure we go on record that there is no longer severance in the civil service for the Government of Canada, correct?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Right.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
It is a $50 million savings per year, a significant amount of money, and it's really great that we've been able to get that kind of cooperation.
Do you contract out for services? You talked about interdepartmental assistance, where you're sharing, which I think is really great. But do you contract out to a third party for any services other than auditing?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Occasionally, and I'll let Denise list the ones. It's been just a couple of times.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We have shared services agreements with the House of Commons and the Library of Parliament, and that covers IT and finance, and also with Public Works for pay. Those are the services that we contract out for, but they're still within the public service.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Okay. You're answering all the questions. That's great.
It's a very good report, too, because it explains exactly what you're doing. Your presentation was also great.
When you're talking about the five divisions you have, you have one-third of the people working on compliance. I put down “advice on files and policy research”. Is the policy research going to sort of dwindle too as we review the act and then move forward, or is this an ongoing thing?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think it's ongoing. That is a different section from the advisory, and that is policy, research, and communications. A fair bit of their time is spent on communications, but then there are always new things to research and things going on. I don't expect the size of that section would change particularly.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
As far as legal services go, how many lawyers do you have on staff?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We have four, three plus an articling student.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault
Thank you, Mr. Mayes.
I now give the floor to Mr. Andrews, who has seven minutes at his disposal.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you very much, and welcome back, folks.
Madam Commissioner, what percentage of your budget goes to your investigations division?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Do you have those figures, Denise?
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Their budget is about $800,000 out of the $7.1 million.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Okay, so it's just a little more than one-fifth.
You also mentioned that you opened 33 investigations and closed 33. Are they firm numbers?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Actually, the term “investigations” is a confusing one. The formal thing that we do under the act and the code is that we have inquiries or examinations. Investigations can include those, but they can also include the preliminary research in deciding whether we should institute an examination or an inquiry. When I talk about the 33 files that we opened, it's both of those things.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
How long do these investigations normally last? Do they span a number of calendar or fiscal years, or are they usually concluded within one fiscal year?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It depends on the kind we're talking about. The inquiries and the examinations, I would say, average about a year. They vary quite a bit. The longest one was over two years, and the shortest one was five or six months. There are some upfront processes that you have to go through that add onto that time. It takes a couple of months to actually start the investigation, where you're asking for comments from the person accused and that sort of thing. That's the investigations.
With respect to the other cases we're looking at, which are brought to our attention, they could be dealt with in a couple of days or they could take five or six months, depending on what we're looking into. I'd say they average about a month or two to decide, and that's usually when we're trying to figure out the basic facts to see if there's enough to warrant a full-fledged inquiry or examination.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Do you have enough resources allocated to your investigations division? Do you sometimes shift around resources to help move them along, or is it a case of “it is what it is”, and they have to work within that envelope?