Information & Ethics Committee on May 27th, 2014

[Tara Zecevic]

Yes, that's where I had mentioned earlier Credit Canada Debt Solutions, a not-for-profit organization. You'll see their billboards on buses and in various mail-outs. They have commercials out and it's to help those consumers around financial literacy if they need information. They have counsellors who will work with Canadians to help them, if they've strayed off the wrong path, to get back on and make sure that they feel in control and empowered.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Thank you very much.

Did you have something that you wanted to add, quickly?

[Carol Gray]

I think there's also more opportunity for the bureaus to work with financial institutions in partnership to get more of that communication out.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Patricia Davidson]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Ravignat, please, you have five minutes.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is perfectly normal for your businesses to want to make a profit; there is no harm in that. However, a problem arises when there is a contradiction between wanting to turn a profit and wanting to protect consumers and the interests of Canadians. One of the solutions is to legislate, but businesses could also take initiatives, create a code of ethics and values, and implement best practices.

I have heard that this is done already to a certain degree, but there is still a contradiction between billing for certain basic services in the case of identity theft and wishing to eradicate the identity theft problem.

What is your financial incentive in seriously addressing the problem of identity theft?

[John Russo]

I'll answer that.

Firstly, to clarify, if you're a true fraud victim, there's no cost to put a fraud alert on your file at Equifax. So if you're a true fraud victim you can do that for free. I believe that's at TransUnion, as well. So we're not charging people who have been victimized. If you want to take proactive steps, there's legislation, as I mentioned, in Manitoba as well as Ontario, where you can go proactively and put an alert on your file to ask that you be contacted at a certain number before granting credit.

But there does exist a dichotomy between making business function and the ability to earn a living, in terms of the businesses we're in as well as consumers trying to get access to information. At the same time, there are costs associated with it. I go back to the U.S. example where they are entitled to one file per year, per person, at any one of the three bureaus there. There are three bureaus in Canada, Experian being the third one.

In Canada you can access your file for free 365 days a year, so you don't even have to subscribe to a monitoring product. I always tell people to call or mail—call is easier—and you can get your file for free 365 days a year. So, in terms of a monitoring product, I give you that information and access to it.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Nevertheless, there is also a contradiction between promoting that possibility and the promotion of monitoring tools. In other words, if you sell a monitoring product, you will not inform the people that they have free access to their reports.

[John Russo]

I think the awareness is there among Canadian consumers that they have access to their file, and they can do it via IVR, through our website, or through a walk-in centre. So that information is there. It's on our Equifax.ca website, informing consumers. If they want, like you say, that real-time instantaneous access, it's for a small fee.

[Carol Gray]

I think also it's a matter of giving consumers choice. The monitoring does provide an additional level of protection. Like many consumers, I subscribe to that service because I also like to know what my credit score is. That comes with the service. I also like to know that I have protection if I lose my wallet. So, it's just giving the consumer choice, and then it's our obligation to lay those choices out to the consumers and ensure they're informed when they make their choice.

[John Russo]

What I don't think.... Maybe we could have Mr. Skinner in this.

[Todd Skinner]

I think one other point I would add is that it's not just about monitoring, but it's about management, understanding your credit, and understanding what happens within your credit file. So as balances go up and down, how does that impact the score?

Credit monitoring, although it is monitoring your credit, is really a tool to help you manage your credit as you go through life and make purchases, whether an automobile or a mortgage. It helps you manage through that process.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Selling these monitoring products, if you had to approximate how much of that is part of your profit margin, is it minor compared to other activities?

[Carol Gray]

Very minor.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

Is it a covering-cost kind of service, or does it actually generate revenue?

[Carol Gray]

It generates revenue, but it's a very small revenue stream.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

It's a very small part of what business you conduct then. That's interesting.

Thank you. I think that was it.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm afraid that's your time, Mathieu.

Next, for the Conservatives, Laurie Hawn.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have one very specific question, and then I'll pass it to Mr. Calandra.

Just going back to the discussion about having a child's SIN number registered. We just took out an RESP for our brand new granddaughter recently. I'll have pictures later. If her SIN number gets compromised somewhere along the way, is there something that will pop up somewhere in the system because there's a recognized SIN number attached to an account? Would that be flagged somewhere in the system?

[John Russo]

At Equifax you could call to have that information put into our database if it was compromised. You could do that proactively if you were aware that it was compromised or used.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

So, I could call any of the agencies and ask them to register this SIN number, and that wouldn't be foolproof, I guess, but it would be one bit of protection.

[John Russo]

It would help.

[Todd Skinner]

One thing we haven't talked about that we've talked about internally is the creation of a child SIN, creating a database where rather than registering when the compromise happens, potentially registering that child SIN at the point of RESP, and then both of us having information so that we can actually prevent the fraud. The use of SIN for children has always been on the lower end of risk when you consider all the other things, but that's an opportunity to get ahead of the problem.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Yes. You have a SIN number there that might not be used for 15 or 20 years, so it seems to me those SINs would be very attractive for those who want to abuse them.

[Todd Skinner]

Yes, that's certainly something I think we could collaborate on as an industry.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you.