Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rights.
A video is available from Parliament.
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
I do share these views.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Very good. Thank you.
Next, for the Conservative Party, we have our vice-chair of the committee, Pat Davidson.
For seven minutes, please, Ms. Davidson.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Mr. Therrien. It's a pleasure to have you here before our committee today.
As a long-serving member of this committee, I also want to pass along my thanks and appreciation to our past members, Jennifer Stoddart and Chantal Bernier. They certainly represented us well, and it was a pleasure to work with them.
I congratulate you on your nomination and look forward to hearing more questions answered.
During your opening remarks, you highlighted a very important balance—at least, I felt that it was a very important balance—when you said, “Governments collect, analyze, use, and share much greater amounts of personal information than ever before.” You went on to say, “So do private companies.”
Canadians are concerned about what's happening with their privacy, but they do want government to protect their personal safety. I think that a lot of times ordinary Canadians who are not involved with the government side of things look at government and think, “You are the ones who should be protecting me.” They also want easy access to all these services that our companies are providing. We have the Internet and all the other technologies that we try to deal with today. It's a very fine balancing act, I believe.
How do you see the relationship between government and private companies developing so that we can meet the demands of Canadian consumers while still protecting their privacy?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
I think my role as Privacy Commissioner, if my appointment is confirmed, would be to be a champion for privacy rights. I have said in my remarks as well that I would work—and that would be my priority—to increase, to improve, the control individuals have over their information, for instance, in relation to private companies, by ensuring that the consent individuals give to the collection and use of information is truly informed. That is a very important concept in privacy law, and that is one I would try to promote to the extent possible.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
On that very point, that's one of the things that I think we have heard a lot about at this committee: the consent procedure and how it's not very easy to understand in most cases. Do you see that being something that needs to be revamped or revised?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
I would think so. I note that there is a bill in the Senate to expand on the information that individuals have when they consent to collection, use, and so on, and I note, like everyone else, that the consent we give to companies when we use technologies is very difficult to understand. So all measures to assist individuals in having more control over their data and consent in an informed way to its use, I would strongly promote.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
During your opening remarks, you also mentioned your experience as legal counsel to Citizenship and Immigration Canada. Was there any specific reason why you highlighted this role? What balance does it demonstrate in your work experience?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
I have mentioned that because it's another indication of my experience with human rights, although not privacy particularly. In Citizenship and Immigration, the protection of the person in a case of persecution, for instance, or other mistreatment, is important.
When I refer in my curriculum to enhancing refugee protection, I have regard to legislation 12 years or so ago, where the grounds for which protection is granted to refugees were expanded from those of the refugee convention to other risks of mistreatment. This was an important development, I think, in immigration and refugee law, that I'm proud to have contributed to and I offer as an example of work towards human rights that I've done in my career.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
You also, in your opening remarks, clarified that as a commissioner, you would not “disregard reasonable needs of government and companies.”
How would you qualify a reasonable need, on both sides?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
That is, of course, a notion that has to be interpreted based on each situation. In the case of government, if we go back to the law enforcement context with which I'm most familiar, police and security agencies already have certain authorities. If they were to ask for additional authorities, I would ask whether those were necessary, whether there were sufficient existing authorities to achieve the ends they needed in order to meet the protection of the public, and, if there were a need for new authorities, whether it was well crafted, whether it was of proper scope, and whether there were alternatives to the authorities being granted. In that sense, a legitimate need, in the case of government, would be to protect the population, but we would need to go beyond the label and go into what was truly necessary to achieve that end. That would be, I think, a big part of my role: to ensure that claims for additional powers to assist the population—and I'm absolutely in favour of measures to protect the population—were well crafted and that they did not go further than what was necessary to achieve the end.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Next we'll have the NDP.
That concludes our seven-minute rounds. We're going to five-minute rounds so I recommend people tighten it up that much more. I understand the NDP will be sharing their time between Mr. Ravignat and Mr. Rankin. Is that correct?
NDP
Murray Rankin NDP Victoria, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Bonjour, Monsieur Therrien.
The Barreau du Québec has a code of ethics, a code de déontologie, which states that a lawyer cannot reveal confidential documents or information he or she learns from a client. There are also stringent restrictions on disclosure in the government classification system and the clearance system that you would have to observe in your present role.
Given these restraints, do you believe you would be able to do your job as a neutral watchdog when you would learn secrets on Public Safety, CSIS, or Immigration? Have you sought specific legal or related advice on these constraints?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
The constraints on the disclosure of information have to do with details that are quite specific. In order to achieve my role as commissioner, if I'm appointed, I think I would bring a knowledge of the general issues, the legislation, and the policies of police and security agencies that I've acquired, which would actually be useful for me to have, and I would not need to rely on information of a classified nature in order to perform my role. The knowledge of the policies and legislation and practices of agencies would be sufficient, in my view.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Therrien, do you think the privacy commissioner should appear before a committee with regard to Bill C-13?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
Did you use the feminine or masculine pronoun?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
You are asking me whether the commissioner should appear regarding Bill C-13 now?
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
Yes. Should she appear as a witness in the ongoing study of Bill C-13?
Nominee for the position of Privacy Commissioner of Canada, As an Individual
As far as I understand, the acting commissioner is still in office, right?
I think Bill C-13 is clearly a very important piece of legislation when it comes to privacy issues.
NDP
Mathieu Ravignat NDP Pontiac, QC
So your answer is yes. You feel that the privacy commissioner should appear.