Evidence of meeting #29 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was budget.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
Are there some specific countries that we have very good relations with, that are advanced in that perspective and we can benefit from?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Absolutely. There are many countries, over 60, that are participating in this forum of the international conference, and certainly there are many countries in Europe, and Australia, New Zealand, the United States through the Federal Trade Commission, that are good partners in this regard.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
I'm sure you're familiar with the report that was tabled by the committee in the House of Commons on April 23 of this year. The report is titled “Privacy and Social Media in the Age of Big Data” in which there are some specific recommendations with respect to the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. Among them are to develop practices that fully comply with the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act; to develop policies, agreements, and contracts that are drafted in clear, accessible language that facilitates meaningful and ongoing consent; and to put in place mechanisms that ensure individuals have access to any personal information that those companies may hold about them, that limit how long those companies hold on to that information, and that facilitate the deletion of such information.
Do you have plans to take measures to implement some, if not all, of those recommendations?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We have certainly participated in this study, and we welcome these recommendations.
I think I will ask Madame Kosseim to answer your question, if you don't mind.
4:50 p.m.
Patricia Kosseim Senior General Counsel and Director General, Legal Services, Policy and Research, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
As you know, we did participate in the study, so we were happy to see the report. There are a number of recommendations that we have paid attention to and continue to implement as we can.
Are there some in particular you would like to ask about? I don't have the study in front of me.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
In general terms, do you intend to implement some of those recommendations, and where are you in that process?
November 27th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.
Senior General Counsel and Director General, Legal Services, Policy and Research, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Certainly, social media in general is a very big priority for the organization. We have particular outreach activities aimed at youth in order to increase digital literacy. We do them in-house or a lot through our contribution program that funds research and public education programs aimed at increasing digital literacy. They've had quite a bit of success in that regard.
It's certainly a big priority of the organization. In fact, it was one of our past priorities. Of the four, it was identity protection and management. This was foremost in our minds and continues to be.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you.
I was speaking with an IT professional in the greater Toronto area who, ironically enough, has personally decided not to engage in any social media because of major concerns he has about privacy through social media. I was kind of surprised that this was coming from him, quite frankly, because he's someone who is very computer savvy and I would think would know how to protect himself in social media.
Can you share with us what some of the challenges are with privacy with respect to the massive social media outlets that are out there today?
4:50 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Certainly, one type of issue is to determine with whom you're sharing information when you use social media. Even if someone wants to restrict the group of people with whom data would be shared, it is easier said than done to actually ensure that this is the case. This leads me to a larger issue, which I'm considering after more or less six months in the job. That is, one of the challenges that social media raises, among other issues, is that we need to think about the relative role of individuals, of organizations, of regulators, like myself, and of legislators in ensuring that the privacy of individuals is respected.
Your question implies that individuals who actually use technology have a responsibility—there is no question about that—but it's not always easy for them to exercise control, because it is not obvious always what will be made of their information. Private organizations have responsibilities and we have a principle under the PIPEDA legislation of accountability, which is extremely relevant to this. It is a principle that I intend to pursue to ensure that organizations do act in a responsible way.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
Thank you, Mr. Therrien, and I'm afraid I have to interrupt you. We're well over time.
Thank you, Mr. Menegakis.
For the Liberal Party, we have Mr. Arnold Chan. Welcome.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.
Also, congratulations, Commissioner, on your appointment.
I want to follow my line of questioning, in line with where Ms. Borg was going.
First on Bill C-13, you have previously indicated that you were uncomfortable with many parts of the legislation and felt that it should perhaps be split into two bills. Despite those reservations, the legislation has now moved on to the Senate. What amendments would you make to make the bill more acceptable? You also mentioned in your earlier comments that you thought certain aspects might be unconstitutional. What aspects of the bill do you feel are potentially unconstitutional?
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We made a number of recommendations—
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. The meeting today is to discuss supplementary estimates. We gave a little leeway earlier, but the line of questioning, asking the Commissioner to pass specific judgment about pieces of legislation....
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON
I believe the question is not within the scope of today's meeting.
4:55 p.m.
Conservative
4:55 p.m.
NDP
The Chair NDP Pat Martin
I'll just consult with the clerk, if you'll excuse me a second.
I'm sorry, Mr. Menegakis. I'm going to rule that's not a point of order in that we're dealing with the supplementary estimates, which is the budget for the operations of the office. Many of the complex legal issues the Privacy Commissioner has been dealing with lately constitute a real challenge within his office in terms of budget and resources. I think the questions related to recent legislation and recent court challenges are applicable to and have a bearing on the estimates and therefore the budget, so I'm going to let the member for the Liberal Party continue.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I've posed the question, so I'll leave it to the commissioner to respond.
4:55 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
We have recommended essentially four types of amendments to Bill C-13.
One issue is related to the question of thresholds that I mentioned earlier. The bill currently proposes that access to information under production orders would be on the basis of reasonable suspicion. We recommend that it be on the basis of reasonable grounds to believe. I think that if it stays at the level of reasonable suspicion, this threshold is vulnerable to charter challenge.
The second issue is the immunity clause I also referred to earlier. Here I recommend that the law be clarified so that only in circumstances provided for in Spencer would the state have access to information.
A third type of amendment has to do with the range of public officers who would be authorized to act under Bill C-13. We propose that the range be narrowed significantly.
Fourth, to enhance transparency, we recommend that the use of these powers be the subject of reporting.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Thank you.
Let me pivot to Bill C-44, which significantly expands CSIS' powers. First of all, the matter is now before committee. Have you been invited to appear and to comment on that particular piece of legislation yet, sir?
5 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I have not.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Arnold Chan Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON
Also, you talked about the issue of civilian oversight. What type of civilian oversight do you think should be implemented to protect the privacy of individuals?
5 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think it should be independent oversight, i.e., oversight by a body that is not part of the executive and is independent from the executive. Then you get into questions of mechanics, which I don't have a definitive view on. There are currently three oversight bodies: one for the RCMP, one for CSIS, and one for CSEC. The gap in my view is that certain other departments are not subject to independent oversight for their national security activities. My recommendation is that some independent oversight apply to them, but should it be one of the three or should it be something that would replace the three? I don't have clear views on that, other than the body or bodies in question should be independent from the executive.