Evidence of meeting #100 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was platform.
A video is available from Parliament.
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
I want to thank the minister. That was very generous.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
She's a wonderful woman. I can see that, but you're not registered to lobby and none of your staff at Facebook Canada is registered as lobbyists. Why not?
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
Well, sir, thank you for the question.
This question does go to the heart of the company's integrity and, quite frankly, my integrity personally. I appreciate the opportunity to address this head on, if I may. At no time has Facebook come close to meeting the threshold for registration as a lobbyist. We review this posture—
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
—on a monthly basis, sir, and will, of course, register if and when we meet the threshold.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
The lobbying commissioner has raised a red flag about that threshold many times. If you're a company—and I talk to companies all the time—you hire someone who comes from the governing party. You were with the Liberal Party. You hire someone who knows the inner workings. Your experience is with the Privy Council Office. You don't have to waste your time with the drudgery of doing 20% lobbying. You just call up Minister Morneau and he's going to meet with you, so you don't ever have to meet that threshold. However, other companies, out of prudence, register because they recognize that what they're doing is lobbying. That's what you were doing: you were lobbying ministers. Why don't you follow the standards? Google, Amazon, and every other company registers to lobby. Why does Facebook think these laws are quaint?
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
To be clear, the meeting you're referring to with Minister Morneau, with all due respect to all parties involved, was a result of his office reaching out to Facebook. He wanted some advice on how to do Facebook Live for his budget speech.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I get that, but you are registered as the company's leading public policy-maker in Canada, “facilitating an ongoing dialogue...on a broad range of issues that impact the Internet sector”. I mean, if my light bulb breaks, I don't call the head of General Electric to come to fix it, yet you show up to help him figure out how to get more “likes“. Isn't that a waste of your time?
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
If you play it out that way, that is what I spend my time doing. I'm proud of it—
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I know that, but you have enormous access. You're very friendly with these people. Why would we expect government to regulate you when you're so nice? It's nothing about Facebook, but no company wants regulation. That's why they come to meet us all the time. That's why we have rules, because they want to limit the effect of government to put the squeeze on them. Then you go and help a minister set up their Facebook page, and they aren't going to be less likely to want to regulate you. Why not just do what other companies do, and register as a lobbyist?
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
We'll certainly take that under advisement. Again, we do not meet the threshold.
Just to be clear to committee members, with 23 million Canadians on Facebook, and two billion globally, people use the service in many different ways. That gives rise, as we're discussing today and in other realms, to very novel public policy challenges. In fact, most of my time is spent working with a broader ecosystem to deal with these novel challenges. You have alluded to some of these institutions—
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Yes, but California Facebook paid into PACs. You guys do public pressure. You do reach out. You are doing political work when you do your work. I think you should just register.
Conservative
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
We work with academics, NGOs, civil society, cultural organizations, indigenous groups, chambers of commerce, and small businesses. We build partnerships with people around the country. This is what it means to do public policy at Facebook, and I'm very proud of that.
Thank you for that feedback, and we will certainly take that under advisement.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Zimmer
We're going to get to another round. I'm going to warn the committee that we have potential votes coming up. We're watching that.
We'll start the schedule again for the second hour, but we'll keep you informed there. We'll try to get as many questions in as possible.
First up for the Liberal Party is Mr. Baylis. You have seven minutes.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Thank you for being here, gentlemen. We appreciate it.
The challenges you have at Facebook are these. It's such a global company, it has such a global reach, and it obviously has these great strengths, but there are also challenges that come with that. One of them is jurisdictional challenges. We have our PIPEDA laws on privacy. The European Union has now put in a set of laws. The United States has laws. Some countries have no laws. Going forward, how are you going to mesh all these different laws as they come on board to ensure that Facebook is meeting and respecting the different privacy laws of different jurisdictions?
Deputy Chief Privacy Officer, Facebook Inc.
It's an important question. First, it's important for us to make sure we are giving a high level of privacy protection to everybody on Facebook, regardless of where they live. Second, it's important because individual people have different preferences as well. We need to make sure we give effect not just to national expectations, but also individual expectations.
As was discussed before, Facebook is based in California, so our primary regulatory relationship for Canadians is served by Facebook Inc. here in California, and our primary regulatory relationship is with the FTC. We also have an affiliate in Dublin that's regulated by the Irish Data Protection Commissioner—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I understand that, but as a Canadian—and I'm a Canadian—using Facebook, my data is located in the United States, and I'm protected by the United States' law, but am I also not protected by Canadian law?
Deputy Chief Privacy Officer, Facebook Inc.
That's an important question. I think it's something I personally, and we as a company, spend a lot of time on with the Canadian Privacy Commissioner. Over the course of our history many of the privacy improvements that we've made have been borne out of our discussions and investigations by the Privacy Commissioner in Canada. I think our engagements in Canada, particularly around privacy regulation, are quite important.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I'm glad that you're engaged, but I'm just curious about a very specific question. As a Canadian, if I make these laws, and yet my data and my contract per se sits with a company, Facebook, in the United States, am I protected by United States' laws or Canadian laws, and/or both, or what?
Maybe Mr. Chan can answer. Sorry, go ahead first.
Deputy Chief Privacy Officer, Facebook Inc.
I may not be the right person to answer that question. I think I would say that with regard to Facebook Inc.'s activities globally, we're regulated by the FTC. The scope of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada's jurisdiction is a question for the Privacy Commissioner, I suspect.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It's obviously your company. I would assume that you need to be aware of what laws you are or are not subject to. In your estimation, are you subject to these Canadian laws? Am I protected by these Canadian laws?
Global Directeur and Head of Public Policy, Facebook Canada, Facebook Inc.
There's a bit of a lag because we're talking past each other.
Certainly you are protected by PIPEDA. Let me just find a different way to explain. We have had a longstanding relationship with the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. The Privacy Commissioner of Canada will investigate us, as they are doing right now, for things that may come in conflict with PIPEDA. We fully co-operate with the investigation, and we have, I think, implemented—
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I do believe you're trying to act in good faith, and I'm not questioning.... I really do see the challenge that Facebook, and we ourselves in our role as writers of laws, face. I'm just trying to understand this. If we write these laws....
It's a tough question to answer, I get that; and you're going to have this coming from a number of countries, obviously, not just Canada or the U.S., but Latin America, Africa, wherever. Are you going to be taking the laws of Canada and saying, “Okay, these are Canadians and we had better make sure, however we work, that we are going to match Canadian laws”? That's a big challenge, I get that, but are you going to be doing that? Are you trying to do that?