Information & Ethics Committee on May 10th, 2018

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Mr. McKay, I have my Google Ads Settings open. There are 59 things I apparently like. Some are correct. I don't particularly like running and walking, but I do like action films. Having said that, though, these 59 things aren't necessarily why I'm being targeted. You have where I've been with my phone for the last 12 months, from what I understand.

I'd be interested to know to what extent you're scraping words from my Hangouts and my emails. You have everything I've searched for on Google and you're checking every website that I visit on Chrome and what I've bookmarked and beyond that. It's not these 59 things I'm getting targeted for advertising. Why don't I see more? Why isn't there more transparency in these 59 things?

[Colin McKay]

If you dig into that tool, you'll see your location history. Your location history is something that you explicitly signed into when you were setting up your phone. You have the ability to go into your phone and both turn off the location history as a whole for all the services—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

No, I understand that, because I did say to you I understood you knew where I was in the last 12 months.

My question is about the transparency of advertising. If I receive an ad, I'm not able to look under the hood to know what has specifically been used to get this ad to my screen right now as a consumer. Why not?

[Colin McKay]

If you're looking at specific parts of our advertising network, there is in fact a little reverse D that you can press on, and it will tell you why you saw that ad in our display network.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay. Facebook used to have this, and, I think, has this now. They're going to have to get better at this, and perhaps you will too, because the explanation oftentimes is that you've liked similar things on the Internet.

[Colin McKay]

Yes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

That can't possibly be the level of transparency that's acceptable, so how detailed is your transparency?

[Colin McKay]

Well, you've described it right there. You just called it up while we were talking, and you have 59 items, some of which are wrong. I have to tell you that for quite a few years the majority of Google thought I was a woman.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

It's not just the 59 items, right? It can't possibly be those 59 items, so it's everything I've searched on Google. It's my browser history. It's not just these 59 things. When I see an ad, I can't track everything, every reason that I've been targeted, that it's because I actually searched a website, or it's because I searched something on May 1. That I don't see, correct?

[Colin McKay]

You and I are speaking to a similar goal, which is, you're right. You should have the ability to understand how you're exchanging your information with us, and how we're using it to deliver services. We try to do that in a suite that we've developed, whether it's through My Account or through Privacy Checkup. Clearly, you're identifying a situation in which you're not getting all the information that helps you feel comfortable.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Yes, because my worry is we had Rob Sherman before us who said that, yes, they didn't do what they should have done at the time. Three years from now, are you going to be sitting across from me saying, yes, you shouldn't have done what you did at the time? We have to regulate, but right now if you actually agree to transparency, you probably have to be more transparent than you are.

When it comes to emails and Hangouts, if I send an email saying, “Sorry, for your loss, and I hope to attend the funeral,” or “Congratulations on having a baby,” are the people I'm sending the information to going to start getting ads about funeral services or strollers?

[Colin McKay]

If they're using our products, no. We don't serve ads based on the content of your email or your Hangouts. All we do is search that content to make sure you're not seeing malware or experiencing a phishing attempt or some sort of breach to your personal security. We run automated systems to ensure the security of your account, but we're not serving ads based on the content of your Gmail in that particular specific way. Especially in the two contexts you just described—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Tell me in what different way you are targeting the ads based on my email and Hangouts history.

[Colin McKay]

Well, in Hangouts you wouldn't be getting ads. In Gmail you get generalized ads based on the broad understanding of who we understand you as a user to be. It's not based on the content of the inbox or the mail, no.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Okay.

The last question I have is about third party apps. We had app developers on the Facebook platform who were receiving troves of information that was completely unrelated and well beyond the scope of what they needed to deliver the app.

Walk me through your third party app sharing and the information you share with third party apps.

[Colin McKay]

Sure. We don't share any information with third party apps—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

No, but they do get access with basic account information—

[Colin McKay]

Yes, that's basic account information, so they get email address—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

What's in my basic account information?

[Colin McKay]

It's the email address and name. There's a third element, but it's not sensitive. It's those two pieces, and then you have to engage with a third party app developer to agree to provide—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So there's no third party app that would receive anything beyond basic account information?

[Colin McKay]

There's no third party app developer, who without engaging with you in a specific conversation about consent to grant access to other information in some circumstances by you providing information to the app developer—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

But, that's up front, right? That's like.... I might not know what I'm agreeing to because the total information is not particularly disclosed to average consumers to say they're agreeing to x, y, and z and a whole bunch of information is going to get out the door.

[Colin McKay]

When you're installing an app on a licensed Android phone, you're given a specific menu that is required to have a link to a comprehensive and clear privacy policy so you understand their attitude towards privacy and security. Then it specifically identifies those elements of information that are either held or generated by the phone or by your account that they're requesting access to. On an app on Google Play for an Android phone, you have to be able to link through and see in greater detail why they want that information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you, Mr. Erskine-Smith. I'd love to give you more time.

Next up is Mr. McCauley, for five minutes.