I'm like the St. Thomas of government operations. I've sat on committee after committee where we were sure that bigger was better, that government always.... Whenever they were looking for who was going to get the contracts, they wanted to go as big as possible. Bigger was not better. Bigger was much more expensive. Bigger was always tied with deals, and the deputy ministers and who got the deals and who didn't.
Then we had Phoenix. I guess I would turn around to citizens in my riding and say, “Look at Phoenix. Do you trust?” In terms of the safeguards that need to be in place, would you not think it would be an extremely complex set of safeguards, that we would be able to assure Canadians that they can trust all their financial information, all their personal information, their life history with a department or a government that has, year in and year out, serious breaches in many and almost all of the serious, major departments?