Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 21st, 2019

[Kristina Verner]

The City of Toronto doesn't have a comprehensive data governance plan at the present time. As a matter of fact, just yesterday we learned of a motion that was brought forward to city council by Councillor Cressy to introduce the notion of the CAO's office being tasked with preparing a data governance strategy writ large around all the major infrastructure issues that are under way.

There are things like the open data governance framework piece, and so on. There are bits and pieces, but not one comprehensive approach around all the notions of data that would be collected in a smart city.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That's even though the city's infrastructure is currently embedded with data collection sensors.

[Kristina Verner]

That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of the high-water mark around this, Barcelona is often held to be the city whose data governance model is the best in class. Have you looked at the Barcelona model?

[Kristina Verner]

Yes. We've been looking at many of the different models around the world—Barcelona, Estonia, Amsterdam—and certainly the Barcelona model is an exemplar of how to build data governance from the community level up. They have a very passionate CIO who has very much looked at the human rights and digital justice components regarding data governance, and has done a fantastic job of preparing that and disseminating it globally.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

It's compliant with the best regional data governance model, which is the EU's data governance model. It's seen as the highest and best in class globally as a way of managing public data and orchestrating how data is collected, distributed, shared and commercialized.

[Kristina Verner]

That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Would you be comfortable with the proposal as it's currently being configured, even though it hasn't been approved, if the federal, provincial and city governments imposed those standards on Toronto? Would the project be possible?

[Kristina Verner]

I would need to go through each individual component of the proposal to do a thoughtful review of how each of those things would be impacted from the imposition of those standards, but at this very high level, I would say yes, absolutely. We would be comfortable with moving forward in that kind of mechanism. The highest order of privacy is the best.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Waterfront Toronto has no objection to Barcelona-style data system governance being imposed by the City of Toronto across the entire city, and you would comply with that as an agency in the city.

[Kristina Verner]

Absolutely.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of some of the opposition to this project, Jim Balsillie said to me when I took a meeting with him—because I meet with all sides in this conversation—that he would throw Waterfront Toronto in front of Google to stop Google. The issue here isn't Waterfront Toronto; it's Google.

Have you heard that before, and do you share that perspective as being a reasonable one?

[Kristina Verner]

I haven't heard that perspective. I know Mr. Balsillie often talks about the value of IP, which we recognize as extraordinary, and the potential for that through this project, both in terms of the Google-related or Sidewalk-related IP that could be generated, but also the IP that could be generated from local Canadian firms.

I have not heard that analogy, but I know Mr. Balsillie has some very passionate thoughts about this project.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

When he says Waterfront Toronto doesn't have the capacity to build the waterfront, what experience does he have with land use development corporations?

[Kristina Verner]

To the best of my knowledge, none.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

He agreed with you.

The other thing I think it is critical to understand here is that this is a development proposal. I will say it again: There is no finished deal. The Waterfront Toronto board is made up of city, provincial and federal members, with one other. It's four, four and four, with a provincial appointee as chair. Whatever deal they make must still be ratified by the City of Toronto, at city hall.

[Meg Davis]

Yes. The lands are owned by the city, so yes, that's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Nothing can happen without city consent. No matter who talks to Waterfront Toronto, it's the publicly elected officials at the City of Toronto who have the final say on this project.

[Meg Davis]

That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

To be very clear about this, did the Prime Minister, the Prime Minister's Office or any federal Liberal bring this project to you and ask you to approve it?

[Meg Davis]

Absolutely not.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

When you meet with federal MPs, why do you meet with them?

[Meg Davis]

We meet frequently with federal and provincial MPs, with our local councillors, etc., to give them updates on projects as they go forward across the waterfront.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Has any member of the opposition party asked for—

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan. That's time.

Next up for five minutes is Mr. Kent.