Information & Ethics Committee on April 2nd, 2019

[Dan Doctoroff]

We did because we were really following the rules. If you think about what we're trying to do, which is basically to develop a plan in consultation with government—three levels of government, not to mention Waterfront Toronto—we need to engage with them on an ongoing basis on the substance of what we're doing with mobility planning, land use planning, infrastructure planning, and with the way the public realm functions, and on things like building codes. We're innovating in a lot of different ways, and we need to engage with civil servants, in particular, at all three levels of government as well as constantly with Waterfront Toronto. We just have the work to do to develop the plan, and it is incredibly complicated. It's taken us even longer than we would have liked, because in some ways it's almost like a 50-sided Rubik's cube, in trying to put all these different pieces together in a way that's responsive to all of the literally thousands of comments we have received not just from government officials but from the public, and that is truly respectful of the objectives of Waterfront Toronto as well as Canadian values.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you, Mr. Kent.

We have Frank Baylis down next to speak for five minutes.

[Frank Baylis, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Mr. Vaughan has a question he wants to ask.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

That's just to start?

Go ahead, Mr. Vaughan.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

To review some of the finding of the Auditor General from the Province of Ontario, on the issue of pressure from senior levels of government to get a proposal finalized, your proposal, when it is finalized, will be responsible for contributing development dollars that will be part of the financing for the flood protection plan for the Port Lands. Is that right?

[Dan Doctoroff]

I don't think it is directly. Again, we're still finalizing things, but what I do believe will be possible is that we and this project will generate a substantial amount of incremental tax revenue at all three levels of government.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That includes development charges that will be paid through the City of Toronto, which is the way they're financing their contribution to flood protection in downtown Toronto.

[Dan Doctoroff]

That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Without the flood protection agreement in place, half of the downtown core would be vulnerable to a flood, the likes of which we've had three already. The worry is that Toronto-Danforth and Beaches-East York, from an electoral perspective, the eastern half of the downtown, would be vulnerable to a major flood without the flood protection and the $1.5 billion investment in protecting those homes, properties and businesses and, most importantly, people.

[Dan Doctoroff]

That is absolutely correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

The pressure you are facing from the federal and provincial governments.... Not you as a company but Waterfront Toronto was facing those pressures to make sure that the financing was in place to get that construction, including the naturalization of the Don River so that we didn't put people at risk as we tried to finalize the development process of the Port Lands and Queens Quay (East). The financing of that required a three-government approval, which is why you were facing pressure to get the approvals in place so that the financing could be orchestrated to protect millions of Torontonians.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Go ahead, Mr. Baylis.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Thank you.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Do I get to respond?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I hope you would.

The second set of questions I have for you is related to your lobbying practices. You're governed by the City of Toronto lobbying act?

[Micah Lasher]

We're governed by the relevant lobbying laws of all three—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That includes those of the City of Toronto.

If you were to send a junior architectural draftsperson from your firm to the buildings department to get the zoning or the building requirements as you contemplated an eight-storey and a 16-storey building—I believe I got the heights right, but that's immaterial—from the building desk at the City of Toronto, as a corporate entity doing business with the City of Toronto, you would have to register that junior architectural draftsperson as a “lobbyist” in order for that person to interface with the City of Toronto public service. Is that not right?

[Micah Lasher]

That's correct, and we do that.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

If you wanted to get the specs for garbage pickup and went to Public Works, you would have to send a junior engineer from your office registered as a lobbyist to talk to the City of Toronto in order to get that done.

[Micah Lasher]

That's correct and most of the people who are registered are like that.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Would that account for the 40 lobbyists you have registered? They're not actually lobbyists paid to lobby, but they're in fact functionaries who work for your engineering and architectural department, and to legally do business in the City of Toronto, thanks to a very scandalous contract—but we won't get into which political party was involved in the MFP scandal, and we'll leave Lisa Raitt out of it for this moment—the reality is this. As a result of those lobbying requirements, every single employee of yours who has any interaction with any function at the City of Toronto must be registered as a lobbyist in order for you to be in complete compliance with the rules and regulations for doing development in the City of Toronto.

[Micah Lasher]

That's correct.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I'm surprised you only have 40 lobbyists.

[Dan Doctoroff]

We only have 100 people.

We haven't started the project yet.