Evidence of meeting #141 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was waterfront.
A video is available from Parliament.
Director of Policy and Strategy, Sidewalk Labs
It was no one that I'm aware of.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
So it was somebody mysterious?
This is the Auditor General; this isn't me. You're telling me you don't know who was handling this?
Head of Policy and Communications, Sidewalk Labs
Mr. Angus, I can speak only to our communications. I can tell you that we scrupulously adhered to the prohibition on contact with government officials in the Waterfront Toronto RFP. That applied to Mr. Brodhead. That applied to any government official.
I would just emphasize that the very first conversation with the Sidewalk Labs employee that Mr. Brodhead spoke about occurred one month after the public announcement of our selection.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay. Maybe I don't know where the Auditor General got her facts from. That's strange. We'll have to wonder about that.
The Auditor General found Waterfront Toronto emails that said the board was being strongly urged by the federal government to authorize that framework agreement and to put pressure on. Who from the federal government was doing that pressure?
Mr. Brodhead.
Director of Policy and Strategy, Sidewalk Labs
I have no idea who they were referring to.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay.
We got a letter recently from Julie Di Lorenzo, who was on the real estate board. She was contradicting Waterfront Toronto. She was saying that, contrary to the claims made, there were many IREC meetings prior to the vote on the framework agreement. She said that was false. She said this was a complex, lengthy document. She was given only four business days to review, assess and seek out counsel. Three days after receiving the framework agreement at the IREC, there was the meeting, at which she would not move this agreement forward to the board with approval.
Who was putting the pressure on to get this thing through? Come on, you know people. They're working for your project.
Chief Executive Officer, Sidewalk Labs
We respected the rules of the procurement.
I do know that when Meg Davis and Kristina Verner from Waterfront Toronto testified here a couple of months ago, they did indicate that the IREC committee, on which I believe Ms. Di Lorenzo sat, met six times.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Okay.
She said they made a false statement to our committee. That, to me, is serious, because this committee is actually like being in court. You have to tell the truth. If she said that there were no meetings and that's why she would not bring it forward....
I'm running out of time, here.
The Auditor General found that Waterfront Toronto gave information prior to the RFP. They gave more information for your bid than for the other competing bids. Who was giving it from Waterfront Toronto to you, prior to that bid?
Head of Policy and Communications, Sidewalk Labs
Let me speak to that, if I may.
Waterfront Toronto in its market sounding process invited an exchange with us and, as Dan said, 51 other companies.
The information specifically referred to in the Auditor General's report was three one-page topographical maps and a five-page extract on a report on goods transportation. The law firm Dentons did a study of those documents and concluded the following. Number one, the maps were also requested and received by EllisDon. Number two, all of the information was equivalent information that was publicly available at the time of the RFP. Number three, is was incidental if not irrelevant to the RFP response. I think that is why Justice Osborne said, that he—
Head of Policy and Communications, Sidewalk Labs
—was satisfied that there was no advantage conferred on Sidewalk Labs, after a detailed review of that information.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Why would the Auditor General say that?
I guess the thing I find hard to believe.... In Canada we treat our auditor generals like Supreme Court justices—well, not the way you guys treat Supreme Court justices. Sorry, maybe I'll retract that.
When an auditor general comes out with a report, it's damn serious. When the Auditor General says that you have more information than others do, and you tell me, “oh, we got a one-page map,” I find it hard to believe that the Auditor General would make note of that and think that it was unfair.
Head of Policy and Communications, Sidewalk Labs
Mr. Angus, the facts are the facts. There were three one-page maps....
NDP
Head of Policy and Communications, Sidewalk Labs
There were three one-page maps and a five-page extract on goods transportation. Justice Osborne says:
I am satisfied that no organization, including the eventual short-listed proponents, was provided with any information or documentation that was not publicly or readily accessible. The evidence pertaining to this seems to me to be clear.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I'm running out of time here.
I have one last question. Mr. Doctoroff, you said it was the second-largest RFP in Waterfront Toronto history. Waterfront Toronto said the same thing. We were all scratching our heads, because the Auditor General said the opposite. Again, we have the Auditor General, who you guys keep saying is just making stuff up out of thin air.
In the RFP, it was from March 17 to April 27. I'm not a big developer, but that seems like a really short timeline. How do you say that's the second-longest thing you've ever seen, when the RFP was from March 17 to April 27?
Chief Executive Officer, Sidewalk Labs
Because that was only the first stage of the RFP. The RFP then continued over another five-and-a-half months.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
And you got it five-and-half months....
The Auditor General said that it was an extremely short time. She said public art projects take about five times as long as what you went through.
I just wonder how all this happened and you don't know who was talking behind the scenes to help you. I'm confused.
Chief Executive Officer, Sidewalk Labs
I don't think it's fair to draw the conclusion that people were talking behind the scenes...from a disagreement about the stages of an RFP. Those two things don't seem to me to be connected at all.
Conservative
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
I have some questions about privacy and data protection.
We had a representative from Google here previously. I generally understand the business model of Google. The services are free. They're not exactly free, of course, in the sense that I am giving my personal information in different ways so that advertisers can advertise to me, with Google being able to monetize my information for advertising purposes. Sidewalk Labs is a subsidiary of Google—well, Alphabet, I understand, which is the same idea from my perspective.
I don't understand the business model when I read the materials that say the data collected through cameras and sensors is to be open data, that you believe in a public data trust.
How do you make money?
Chief Executive Officer, Sidewalk Labs
That's an excellent question. Thank you.
We believe we'll make money in essentially three ways. The first is that we will develop a small percentage of the waterfront, Quayside, and we have suggested publicly one other piece upon which Google's new Canadian headquarters will be—
