Evidence of meeting #150 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
In the first example I used, if an MP were to receive a painting or some gift that you can foresee, you can advise them that they should return the gift if it was received inappropriately. You can't order it. Is that correct?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's right.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Did you at any point advise Mr. Trudeau that he should compensate for the travel that was sponsored and that was deemed to be unethical or illegal?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I did not. I do not know if my predecessor did, because this matter was finished prior to my assuming the duties on January 9, 2018, so I—
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Quite frankly, I did not raise—
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You can understand where Canadians get confused. If something was given illegally or unethically, say in the form of a trip, it just would seem to make common sense that if it was done inappropriately, whether it was disclosed or not, but it was eventually found out.... What's the difference between a $10,000 sponsored trip or someone just giving you $10,000 to take a trip? If somebody handed a politician an envelope with $10,000 in it—heaven forbid—to try to win some influence with them, and then they use that money to take their family on vacation, what's the difference? Under the code, is there any difference between those two scenarios?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I would prefer not to try to hypothesize on those situations, but I guess you know what the prohibitions are. It's not giving the gift that might be prohibited. It's receiving the gift, accepting the gift. That's what the code and the act governs. It's the acceptance of a gift.
Once you've accepted a gift, you've done something that is only partly reversible. We provide advice as to how to reverse the situation. Sometimes it's not possible to reverse the situation.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We do not have the power to order any specific action on the part of the office holder who has accepted a gift that he or she should not have accepted.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Understood.
Again, I go back to your timeline on the current investigation. I think you responded to a colleague's question that it would not be by mid-June but within the next few months. That places it sometime within the summer range, give or take. I know you can't be specific with the date and you said you have some outstanding interviews to conduct.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, we still have some interviews to conduct. There can always be a number of surprise elements, if you wish. We want to also produce a report that is at least of the same quality as previous reports have been. It does take time, but I am confident that within the next few months we will complete this report, barring something completely unforeseen.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
You said you were getting ready for the election. Is there any particular area, in terms of the act or the code, that you foresee being a focal point for your work as we go into the election cycle?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, there's nothing in particular. We know what the prevalent problems are and we will assume that in the future, it will be quite similar to what it is now. The issue of gifts is always number one on the list.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
We also have the issue of the initial declarations, the time frame in which they should be returned. We will review our forms, as well, with this goal of their being in plain language, user-friendly as much as possible, including for the use of technology.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Bob Zimmer
Thank you, Mr. Cullen.
Last up is Mr. Erskine-Smith for seven minutes.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Thanks very much.
Based on the information we have, there are 49 full-time positions. About a third are advisory and compliance. What are the other two-thirds of the positions? What are they for?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It's more than one-third. In fact, 18 are advisory and compliance out of the 49. We have 11 in corporate services, which deals with HR, IM and IT, finance, all the obligations we have as a public sector entity that has a number of laws it has to abide with.
Liberal
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There are 11 FTEs. We have eight in outreach and communications, media relations and so on and so forth. We have eight in legal and investigations.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
Okay. Am I right, then? You had 2,000 inquiries and calls in the last year, and would that be the 18 people who are dealing with that?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's right.
Liberal