Information & Ethics Committee on May 28th, 2019

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

When a surveillance-based company adds tags to sites that do not belong to them, with the approval of the site owner—for example, Google Analytics is pervasive across the Internet and has the approval of the site owner but not of the end user—do you consider them to have implied consent to collect that data?

[Daniel Therrien]

Sorry, I did not get the end.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

If I have website and have Google Analytics on it, I have approved Google's use of my website to collect data, but somebody coming to use my website doesn't know that Google is collecting data on my site. Is there implied consent, or is that illegal from your point of view?

[Daniel Therrien]

It is one of the flaws of consent, probably, that there is a term and condition somewhere that makes this consent. That's why I say that privacy is not only about the rules of consent; it's about the use of the information and the respect for rights. We should not be fixated on consent as the be-all and end-all of privacy and data protection.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

We have Mr. Picard, who will share the rest of the time with—

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

Ms. Weintraub, you said something very interesting, and I don't know whether we have established this notion before.

In the scenario where Zuckerberg would run for president, Facebook couldn't give the information because it would be a massive contribution in kind. Have we established the ownership of the information? No one has consented that this information be spread, and therefore does Facebook own this information?

[Ellen Weintraub]

That is a very interesting question, but I'm not sure it's a campaign finance question, so it may be outside of my expertise.

[Michel Picard, Liberal, Montarville, QC]

What if it were in Canada, Mr. Therrien?

[Daniel Therrien]

The rules around ownership of information are not very clear.

From a privacy and data protection perspective, I think the question is one of control, consent, but ownership is not a clearly cut question in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you.

The last three are Jo, Jacques, Charlie, and then we'll finish up.

[Jo Stevens, Member, Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, United Kingdom House of Commons]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Weintraub, I want to ask you, as someone with an obvious professional interest and expertise in this area, do you think we in the U.K. would have more confidence in the integrity in our elections and referenda if we had a Mueller-type inquiry into the 2016 European Union referendum?

[Ellen Weintraub]

You know your people better than I do. I think you're a better judge of what would give them greater confidence.

There were specific incidents that triggered the Mueller inquiry.

[Jo Stevens]

Do you see any overlap between those incidents, or any trend in terms of what happened there and what you know about the European Union referendum?

[Ellen Weintraub]

I haven't studied it carefully enough to wage an opinion.

[Jo Stevens]

Okay, thank you.

In terms of the future for us, we potentially have a second referendum coming up soon. We may have another vote. We may even have a general election very shortly.

Are there any recommendations you would make, in terms of foreign interference through money to the U.K. and to our government? At the moment, our electoral laws, I think, are generally accepted to be unfit for purpose in the digital age.

[Ellen Weintraub]

As I said, I think a lot of it goes to transparency. Do you have the ability to know who is behind the information that you're seeing both digitally and in other media?

[Jo Stevens]

Are there any jurisdictions that you would identify currently as having really good electoral laws that are fit for purpose, bearing in mind what we've all been talking about today around digital interference? Is there a country that you would hold up as a really good model?

[Ellen Weintraub]

I keep looking for that. I go to international conferences, and I'm hoping that somebody out there has the perfect solution. However, I have to say that I haven't found it yet.

If you find it, let me know, because I would love to find that country that's figured this out.

[Jo Stevens]

Perhaps I could ask Mr. Cannataci the same question.

Is there a jurisdiction you're aware of that you think we could all look to for best practice on electoral law encompassing the digital age?

[Prof. Joseph A. Cannataci]

The short answer is no.

I share Ms. Weintraub's problem. I keep looking for the perfect solution and I only find, at best, half-baked attempts.

Ms. Stevens, we'll stay in touch about the matter, and the minute we find something, I'll be very happy to share it.

[Jo Stevens]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

You have two minutes, Jo.

[Jo Stevens]

That's good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Okay.

Next up, we have Monsieur Gourde.

Go ahead, for five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question will focus on a word that seemed to me to be important just now, the word “responsibility”.

This morning, we heard from representatives from digital platforms. They seemed to brush away a major part of their responsibility.

That shocked me. I feel they have a responsibility for their platforms and for the services they provide. Despite very specific questions, they were not able to prove that they are in control of their platforms in terms of broadcasting fake news or hate propaganda that can really change the course of things and influence a huge number of people.

The users, those that buy advertising, also have a responsibility. When you buy advertising, it must be fair and accurate, in election campaigns especially, but also all the time.

If there was international regulation one day, how should we determine the responsibility of both parties, the digital platforms and the users, so they can be properly identified?

That question goes to anyone who wants to answer.