Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Catherine Tully]

Regarding the purpose clause in Nova Scotia, it's more on the access side in terms of how useful it's been, but I could see it working in a similar way on the privacy side. It spells out the series of things that are intended to be accomplished by the law, things like facilitating informed participation in policy formulation, ensuring fairness in government decision-making, and permitting the airing and reconciliation of divergent views.

It's interesting, when a legislature states these purposes so clearly, that when there's a possibility of interpretations of some of the sections, these purposes really guide the courts and the decision-makers. This is a unique opportunity for your committee and Parliament to anticipate some things and put some sign posts out there for the future because, of course, it takes some doing to amend these laws.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

All right.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Colleagues, that brings to an end this particular discussion with our esteemed panellists, our guests here today. Thank you, Mr. Molloy and Mr. Murray, for coming again. I know you were here at our previous study. Mr. McArthur and Mr. Weldon, it was a pleasure having you here. Apologies if anything on our end kept us from connecting on the video side of things, but we certainly appreciated your testimony. Of course, Ms. Tully, we appreciate your perspectives, as well. I know that this will help us as we make recommendations and draft a final report. Hopefully, we will see some legislation in this Parliament that will address this antiquated legislation. I have every reason to believe that's going to happen.

Thank you again for your time and for your patience, and we know that we can count on you if we need further clarification. If there's anything else that you'd like to follow up with us on, please get it to the committee for consideration.

Colleagues, I have just a couple of housekeeping items. We have witnesses this Thursday. We have Chantal Bernier, who's a former privacy commissioner. Canada Revenue Agency and Shared Services Canada will also send folks in. On the Tuesday after we get back from Thanksgiving, we have CSIS, CBSA, and the RCMP. We're lining up witnesses for the 20th. We don't have confirmation from any of the ministers yet, but we're still working on that and waiting to hear back.

At some point in time, after we get back, I think we're going to have to have a discussion about what we're going to do next. I know there's a motion on the floor to propose what we're going to do next, but we need to have that discussion, as well.

I'm just going to let the committee know that I've already spoken to Mr. Lightbound, who will chair the meeting on Thursday. I have to go back to Alberta for some personal business that I need to attend to on Thursday, so I appreciate that. I know you're in good hands.

That brings me to the point where I wish you all a happy Thanksgiving, and I hope you have a safe constituency week. I look forward to seeing you in the House for the next couple of days, but I will be returning back to Alberta tomorrow night.

Does anyone have any questions or comments or anything they want to bring to the committee's attention?

Mr. Jeneroux.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

We recently received an order in council from Ms. Chagger, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, regarding the appointments of the Ethics Commissioner and the Lobbying Commissioner. I have a copy here if you would like to see it, Mr. Chair. It's a normal order in council.

I thought it might not be a bad idea, if the committee agrees, to call in the Ethics Commissioner and the Commissioner of Lobbying—I think they have been appointed for six months—to get a sense of what they plan to do. It might be the last opportunity to call in Ms. Dawson before she retires as well.

I don't know if we need a motion for that or just a general discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

It is something this committee has done in the past.

Mr. Dusseault, you are the former chair of this committee. As a matter of protocol, when the committee had these orders in council, did it usually take the opportunity to have them come in and appear?

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

It was really at the committee's discretion. It was up to us to decide whether to invite newly appointed persons to appear before the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in order to ask them questions about their mandate.

In this case, we are dealing with six-month term extensions. These persons occupy positions on an interim basis. I do not know whether it is necessary to invite them to appear in this instance. However, it is up to the committee to decide the matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I don't think Mr. Jeneroux has actually put a formal motion here. I think he's asking if the committee is interested in entertaining and hearing from both Ms. Shepherd and Ms. Dawson in their reappointments; they were only six-month extensions, I think.

Mr. Lightbound.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Would it not be better to invite them to appear toward the end of their terms which would enable us to gather their impressions as they prepare to leave their positions? They still have six months remaining. This is only a suggestion I am making. I think it would be interesting to invite them to hear their recommendations at that time.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

My feelings aren't going to be hurt if we do it at the beginning or at the end.

I agree that there's probably a benefit to having them here, especially with everything we've discussed. I think the last time they were here, we were all pretty green on the committee as well, so I wouldn't mind taking an hour closer to the end.

Does it say when their end date is? Are we looking at March?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I have the order in council appointment. There was another piece of paper that dealt with the actual term. I remember seeing it. I believe both of them were six-month extensions.

Does anybody else on the committee remember reading that? I don't want to have to dig it up.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

We will also have to verify whether there is a limited period within which to invite commissioners to discuss their appointments. It might be interesting to hear from them around the end of their terms, but to do so before the new commissioners arrive. It would no doubt be interesting to know how their term went and to ask them questions about the future challenges they foresee.

Later on, once the permanent appointments have been made, it will be particularly appropriate to invite the new commissioners to hear about their vision for the future and the way they expect to carry out their respective terms.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

The appointments were made at the end of July for six months. Was that for Ms. Dawson, or was that for Ms. Shepherd ?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Hugues La Rue]

That was Ms. Dawson.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Again, Mr. Chair, there might, for example, be a 30-day time limit in terms of inviting them. If we can invite them and have them appear by the end of their term, I'd be okay with that. I just want to make sure we're in line with that 30 days.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

I need to be clear, Mr. Jeneroux, on what your intent is. If the intent is to scrutinize or to discuss the order in council, in that case we should do it sooner rather than later, or is your intention, as a matter of courtesy, to hear from them at the end of their term? I'm seeking some clarification from you, sir.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I guess we could do both. I'd be happy to do both.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

It's just that it doesn't make any sense to scrutinize the appointment of the order in council, after the order in council has already been executed.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I'm not complaining about the order in council. It's a six-month appointment. It makes sense to me. I would love to just hear their thoughts on where they plan to take the position and what they think should be changed about the position going forward, if they are not to have another extension as in the case of the Commissioner of Lobbying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Both of them received six-month extensions roughly at the end of June or early July, which means they're already halfway through their six-month term. We only have about half their time from those extensions remaining.

I think it's a matter of courtesy, and I don't see any dissenting opinions on this. It would be nice to maybe have them give us a state of the union address for their respective—

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Basically, you're asking for an exit interview, right?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Yes.

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

You want to know what their experiences were and what they can recommend to.... That's fine.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

We want to know where things are right now.

Raj, are you okay with that?

[Raj Saini, Liberal, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Yes, that's fine

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Okay, so we'll just have a gentlemen's agreement at the table that we'll pursue that.